Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator app is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output (can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off when it
reaches the high thr.

Thanks.

In article ,
"Ian Field" wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator app is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output (can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off when it
reaches the high thr.

Thanks.

Driving transistors off the power supplies to a chip is an old trick.
It has no voltage offset and much less crossover distortion compared to
an emitter follower on the output.

The circuit isn't self-oscillating so it will generate a triangle wave
on the output. This is probably a replacement for very old voltage
regulating relays.

The 555 can be used for real PWM regulation by creating your classic
oscillator circuit then applying feedback current to pins 2/6. The
switching speed is awful compared to modern switching power supply chips
but it's great as a quick hack.
--
I will not see posts or email from Google because I must filter them as spam

Ian Field wrote:
Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator
app is very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output
(can't read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm
resistor feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window
comparator with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it
switches on the field winding when the battery drops to the low
threshold and off when it reaches the high thr.

Thanks.


Which manufacturer are you talking about? AN170 could have been published
by any one of dozens of semiconductor manufacturers.

--
David
dgminala at mediacombb dot net

"Kevin McMurtrie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ian Field" wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator app is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output
(can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window
comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off when it
reaches the high thr.

Thanks.

Driving transistors off the power supplies to a chip is an old trick.
It has no voltage offset and much less crossover distortion compared to
an emitter follower on the output.

The circuit isn't self-oscillating so it will generate a triangle wave
on the output. This is probably a replacement for very old voltage
regulating relays.

The 555 can be used for real PWM regulation by creating your classic
oscillator circuit then applying feedback current to pins 2/6. The
switching speed is awful compared to modern switching power supply chips
but it's great as a quick hack.

Which in real terms means using a 556. I'm not sure but I have this strange
feeling in my bones that striving for 20kHz might be a very bad idea - maybe
400Hz tops.

I still prefer the simplicity of using a window comparator to trip a
bistable on min/max thresholds.

Isn't that sort of almost a hysteretic regulator?

"Dave M" wrote in message
...
Ian Field wrote:
Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator
app is very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output
(can't read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm
resistor feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window
comparator with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it
switches on the field winding when the battery drops to the low
threshold and off when it reaches the high thr.

Thanks.


Which manufacturer are you talking about? AN170 could have been published
by any one of dozens of semiconductor manufacturers.


Signetics.

Google AN170 and you'll get loads of 555AN.pdf - every one I found is
blurred on the circuit I might be thinking of using.

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:58:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator app is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output (can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

With pin 3 loaded by a 180R 2W resistor, supply pin current increases
R1 voltage sufficiently to turn on the darlington when pin 3 goes
high.

Internal divider (threshold pin 6 ref and trigger on pin 2) voltages
are externally regulated (to ~6V and 6V/2 respectively) at pin 5, by
a 4V3 zener (1N5229) and a signal diode string.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off when it
reaches the high thr.

Better quality scans of AN170 (from Signetics Linear Products '88 or
Signetics Linear Data Manual Vol2 Industrial) are out there on the
web. If there are any other part values still giving trouble, let us
know.

RL

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:58:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator app is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output (can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off when it
reaches the high thr.

Thanks.


While that circuit is pretty much like my original alternator
regulator chip (see my patents), that's NOT the way to make a good
regulator.

Go PWM. All it takes is a comparator watching the 555 ramp.

And fit to this TC:

http://analog-innovations.com/SED/Al...egulatorTC.pdf

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"legg" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:58:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator app is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output
(can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

With pin 3 loaded by a 180R 2W resistor, supply pin current increases
R1 voltage sufficiently to turn on the darlington when pin 3 goes
high.

Internal divider (threshold pin 6 ref and trigger on pin 2) voltages
are externally regulated (to ~6V and 6V/2 respectively) at pin 5, by
a 4V3 zener (1N5229) and a signal diode string.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window
comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off when it
reaches the high thr.

Better quality scans of AN170 (from Signetics Linear Products '88 or
Signetics Linear Data Manual Vol2 Industrial) are out there on the
web.

Do you know the filename of any better scans?

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:58:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator app is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output
(can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window
comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off when it
reaches the high thr.

Thanks.


Well, shoot, the attachment failed last time.




Many thanks for the clean scan.

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message news
On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:58:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator app is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output
(can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window
comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off when it
reaches the high thr.

Thanks.


While that circuit is pretty much like my original alternator
regulator chip (see my patents), that's NOT the way to make a good
regulator.

Go PWM. All it takes is a comparator watching the 555 ramp.

And fit to this TC:

http://analog-innovations.com/SED/Al...egulatorTC.pdf


At the moment I'm just considering my options - my motorcycle battery needs
significant distilled water replacement 2 or 3 times a year, not just
topping up, it gets to the point that the starter is really sluggish and I
find the electrolyte only half way up the plates.

Is this rate of water loss excessive?

So called "black boxes" for motorcycles are at notoriously extortionate
prices (assuming the part is available for a 30 yr old motorcycle) so if
replacement becomes neccessary, a home brew might be order of the day.

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 18:52:38 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message news
On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:58:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator app is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output
(can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window
comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off when it
reaches the high thr.

Thanks.


While that circuit is pretty much like my original alternator
regulator chip (see my patents), that's NOT the way to make a good
regulator.

Go PWM. All it takes is a comparator watching the 555 ramp.

And fit to this TC:

http://analog-innovations.com/SED/Al...egulatorTC.pdf


At the moment I'm just considering my options - my motorcycle battery needs
significant distilled water replacement 2 or 3 times a year, not just
topping up, it gets to the point that the starter is really sluggish and I
find the electrolyte only half way up the plates.

Is this rate of water loss excessive?

So called "black boxes" for motorcycles are at notoriously extortionate
prices (assuming the part is available for a 30 yr old motorcycle) so if
replacement becomes neccessary, a home brew might be order of the day.


Excessive water loss is due to overcharging. Follow the
voltage/temperature curves I referenced and you'll do a lot better.

I'd roll my own from discrete transistors on a PCB, and protect
carefully against transients.

Is your field switched from positive? Most stuff today is the other
way around, to allow NPN or NMOS field drive.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 18:52:38 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote
in
message news
On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:58:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator app
is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output
(can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window
comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off when
it
reaches the high thr.

Thanks.


While that circuit is pretty much like my original alternator
regulator chip (see my patents), that's NOT the way to make a good
regulator.

Go PWM. All it takes is a comparator watching the 555 ramp.

And fit to this TC:

http://analog-innovations.com/SED/Al...egulatorTC.pdf


At the moment I'm just considering my options - my motorcycle battery
needs
significant distilled water replacement 2 or 3 times a year, not just
topping up, it gets to the point that the starter is really sluggish and I
find the electrolyte only half way up the plates.

Is this rate of water loss excessive?

So called "black boxes" for motorcycles are at notoriously extortionate
prices (assuming the part is available for a 30 yr old motorcycle) so if
replacement becomes neccessary, a home brew might be order of the day.


Excessive water loss is due to overcharging. Follow the
voltage/temperature curves I referenced and you'll do a lot better.

I'd roll my own from discrete transistors on a PCB, and protect
carefully against transients.

Is your field switched from positive? Most stuff today is the other
way around, to allow NPN or NMOS field drive.


Good question - the workshop manual diagram just shows 2 wires from the
alternator field to the control box, no reference shown of either to +12 or
ground.

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 18:18:34 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:58:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator app
is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output
(can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window
comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off when
it
reaches the high thr.

Thanks.


Well, shoot, the attachment failed last time.




Many thanks for the clean scan.


You're welcome.

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had so
many app notes).


Sadly my flat is rather small so I have to part with stuff when I'm pretty
sure I'll never need it again.

(Usually get proven wrong 2 days later!).

The only Signetics book I have was published by one of their distributors,
no app notes.

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 19:49:22 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 18:52:38 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote
in
message news On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:58:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator app
is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output
(can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window
comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off when
it
reaches the high thr.

Thanks.


While that circuit is pretty much like my original alternator
regulator chip (see my patents), that's NOT the way to make a good
regulator.

Go PWM. All it takes is a comparator watching the 555 ramp.

And fit to this TC:

http://analog-innovations.com/SED/Al...egulatorTC.pdf


At the moment I'm just considering my options - my motorcycle battery
needs
significant distilled water replacement 2 or 3 times a year, not just
topping up, it gets to the point that the starter is really sluggish and I
find the electrolyte only half way up the plates.

Is this rate of water loss excessive?

So called "black boxes" for motorcycles are at notoriously extortionate
prices (assuming the part is available for a 30 yr old motorcycle) so if
replacement becomes neccessary, a home brew might be order of the day.


Excessive water loss is due to overcharging. Follow the
voltage/temperature curves I referenced and you'll do a lot better.

I'd roll my own from discrete transistors on a PCB, and protect
carefully against transients.

Is your field switched from positive? Most stuff today is the other
way around, to allow NPN or NMOS field drive.


Good question - the workshop manual diagram just shows 2 wires from the
alternator field to the control box, no reference shown of either to +12 or
ground.


Ohm from each wire and see if either is internally connected to frame.
If neither is, you can do anything you want.

Classic was switched from plus... mechanical regulator. But changed
to switched to ground to accommodate NPN power transistors available
in the '60's.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Ian Field" wrote in message
...

"Jim Thompson" wrote
in message ...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 18:52:38 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote
in
message news On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:58:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator app
is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output
(can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window
comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off when
it
reaches the high thr.

Thanks.


While that circuit is pretty much like my original alternator
regulator chip (see my patents), that's NOT the way to make a good
regulator.

Go PWM. All it takes is a comparator watching the 555 ramp.

And fit to this TC:

http://analog-innovations.com/SED/Al...egulatorTC.pdf


At the moment I'm just considering my options - my motorcycle battery
needs
significant distilled water replacement 2 or 3 times a year, not just
topping up, it gets to the point that the starter is really sluggish and
I
find the electrolyte only half way up the plates.

Is this rate of water loss excessive?

So called "black boxes" for motorcycles are at notoriously extortionate
prices (assuming the part is available for a 30 yr old motorcycle) so if
replacement becomes neccessary, a home brew might be order of the day.


Excessive water loss is due to overcharging. Follow the
voltage/temperature curves I referenced and you'll do a lot better.

I'd roll my own from discrete transistors on a PCB, and protect
carefully against transients.

Is your field switched from positive? Most stuff today is the other
way around, to allow NPN or NMOS field drive.


Good question - the workshop manual diagram just shows 2 wires from the
alternator field to the control box, no reference shown of either to +12
or ground.


What was I thinking?! - as long as both brushes are isolated from the stator
plate I can please myself which way the field is energised.

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 20:07:09 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Ian Field" wrote in message
...

"Jim Thompson" wrote
in message ...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 18:52:38 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote
in
message news On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:58:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator app
is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output
(can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window
comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off when
it
reaches the high thr.

Thanks.


While that circuit is pretty much like my original alternator
regulator chip (see my patents), that's NOT the way to make a good
regulator.

Go PWM. All it takes is a comparator watching the 555 ramp.

And fit to this TC:

http://analog-innovations.com/SED/Al...egulatorTC.pdf


At the moment I'm just considering my options - my motorcycle battery
needs
significant distilled water replacement 2 or 3 times a year, not just
topping up, it gets to the point that the starter is really sluggish and
I
find the electrolyte only half way up the plates.

Is this rate of water loss excessive?

So called "black boxes" for motorcycles are at notoriously extortionate
prices (assuming the part is available for a 30 yr old motorcycle) so if
replacement becomes neccessary, a home brew might be order of the day.


Excessive water loss is due to overcharging. Follow the
voltage/temperature curves I referenced and you'll do a lot better.

I'd roll my own from discrete transistors on a PCB, and protect
carefully against transients.

Is your field switched from positive? Most stuff today is the other
way around, to allow NPN or NMOS field drive.


Good question - the workshop manual diagram just shows 2 wires from the
alternator field to the control box, no reference shown of either to +12
or ground.


What was I thinking?! - as long as both brushes are isolated from the stator
plate I can please myself which way the field is energised.


Yep ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"flipper" wrote in message
...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had so
many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
.. .

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had so
many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:10 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
. ..

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had so
many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

What diameter of spine? I have bucket-loads of certain sizes (and the
machine that punches and binds :-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"John Fields" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
. ..

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had so
many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)


Very nice - how long to scan and post?

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 22:15:23 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had so
many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)


Very nice - how long to scan and post?

---
Thanks, :-)

Less than 5 minutes to take the photos, upload them to my computer,
attach them to the post, and send them.

---
JF

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 15:12:44 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:10 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had so
many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

What diameter of spine? I have bucket-loads of certain sizes (and the
machine that punches and binds :-)

...Jim Thompson

---
Measures out at 3/4" diameter by about 8-1/2" long.

Sounds like you want to send me one, (thanks :-)) so I'll email you my
physical address.

We had one of those machines when I worked at Tracor Marine in Fort
Lauderdale about a hundred years ago, it seems.

Great machine, and concept, and one of those inventions where you hope
the inventor got rich.

Me, anyway.

---
JF

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:45:15 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 15:12:44 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:10 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
m...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had so
many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

What diameter of spine? I have bucket-loads of certain sizes (and the
machine that punches and binds :-)

...Jim Thompson

---
Measures out at 3/4" diameter by about 8-1/2" long.

Sounds like you want to send me one, (thanks :-)) so I'll email you my
physical address.

Yep. My 3/4" stuff is black. Is that OK? Largest I have in white is
1/2".


We had one of those machines when I worked at Tracor Marine in Fort
Lauderdale about a hundred years ago, it seems.

Great machine, and concept, and one of those inventions where you hope
the inventor got rich.

Heavy as the dickens, nasty to put away on an overhead shelf :-(


Me, anyway.

---
JF

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:10 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had so
many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

That beats my 1964 G.E. Transistor manual.


I'd be very interested if anyone has any old Mullard data sheets; OC, AC, AF
etc.

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 20:07:09 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Ian Field" wrote in message
...

"Jim Thompson" wrote
in message ...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 18:52:38 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson"
wrote
in
message news On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:58:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality
and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator
app
is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output
(can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window
comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on
the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off
when
it
reaches the high thr.

Thanks.


While that circuit is pretty much like my original alternator
regulator chip (see my patents), that's NOT the way to make a good
regulator.

Go PWM. All it takes is a comparator watching the 555 ramp.

And fit to this TC:

http://analog-innovations.com/SED/Al...egulatorTC.pdf


At the moment I'm just considering my options - my motorcycle battery
needs
significant distilled water replacement 2 or 3 times a year, not just
topping up, it gets to the point that the starter is really sluggish
and
I
find the electrolyte only half way up the plates.

Is this rate of water loss excessive?

So called "black boxes" for motorcycles are at notoriously extortionate
prices (assuming the part is available for a 30 yr old motorcycle) so
if
replacement becomes neccessary, a home brew might be order of the day.


Excessive water loss is due to overcharging. Follow the
voltage/temperature curves I referenced and you'll do a lot better.

I'd roll my own from discrete transistors on a PCB, and protect
carefully against transients.

Is your field switched from positive? Most stuff today is the other
way around, to allow NPN or NMOS field drive.


Good question - the workshop manual diagram just shows 2 wires from the
alternator field to the control box, no reference shown of either to +12
or ground.


What was I thinking?! - as long as both brushes are isolated from the
stator
plate I can please myself which way the field is energised.


Yep ;-)

One thing that worries me is the headlight brightens up very noticeably when
I pick up the revs from tickover, seems to suggest the battery internal
resistance is relatively high for the potentially available charging
current - it wasn't any better when it was new.

Possibly a bistable controlled field winding may not be the best idea, I
suppose it depends how quickly the rotor magnetisation diminishes when the
field current is switched off.

The existing rectifier/regulator pack is potted in a cast alloy heatsink
with pronounced fins, so I'm guessing its linear.

I'm thinking maybe feed the field winding with a variable output buck
regulator and include the battery in the voltage control loop.

What do you think?

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:06:17 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:10 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
m...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had so
many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

That beats my 1964 G.E. Transistor manual.


I'd be very interested if anyone has any old Mullard data sheets; OC, AC, AF
etc.


I have a 1959 CBS Tube and Semiconductor data book, and 1 1960 RCA
Tube data book. I did have a Tung Sol book as well, but the silver
fish ate it :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Ian Field Inscribed thus:


"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:10 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
m...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had
so many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

That beats my 1964 G.E. Transistor manual.


I'd be very interested if anyone has any old Mullard data sheets; OC,
AC, AF etc.

I've got a bit of that stuff kicking around !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:17:21 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 20:07:09 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Ian Field" wrote in message
...

"Jim Thompson" wrote
in message ...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 18:52:38 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson"
wrote
in
message news On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:58:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Some parts of the AN170 PDF for the 555/556 timer are poor quality
and
barely readable - it just so happens that the automotive regulator
app
is
very blurred.

Also; I have my doubts about the design shown as it shunts the output
(can't
read the resistor value!) and takes its output from a 68 Ohm resistor
feeding the Vcc pin.

Does anyone have any automotive regulator apps for the 555?

The one in AN170 isn't a PWM as such - its just used as a window
comparator
with latch, at least its not a self oscillating PWM, it switches on
the
field winding when the battery drops to the low threshold and off
when
it
reaches the high thr.

Thanks.


While that circuit is pretty much like my original alternator
regulator chip (see my patents), that's NOT the way to make a good
regulator.

Go PWM. All it takes is a comparator watching the 555 ramp.

And fit to this TC:

http://analog-innovations.com/SED/Al...egulatorTC.pdf


At the moment I'm just considering my options - my motorcycle battery
needs
significant distilled water replacement 2 or 3 times a year, not just
topping up, it gets to the point that the starter is really sluggish
and
I
find the electrolyte only half way up the plates.

Is this rate of water loss excessive?

So called "black boxes" for motorcycles are at notoriously extortionate
prices (assuming the part is available for a 30 yr old motorcycle) so
if
replacement becomes neccessary, a home brew might be order of the day.


Excessive water loss is due to overcharging. Follow the
voltage/temperature curves I referenced and you'll do a lot better.

I'd roll my own from discrete transistors on a PCB, and protect
carefully against transients.

Is your field switched from positive? Most stuff today is the other
way around, to allow NPN or NMOS field drive.


Good question - the workshop manual diagram just shows 2 wires from the
alternator field to the control box, no reference shown of either to +12
or ground.


What was I thinking?! - as long as both brushes are isolated from the
stator
plate I can please myself which way the field is energised.


Yep ;-)

One thing that worries me is the headlight brightens up very noticeably when
I pick up the revs from tickover, seems to suggest the battery internal
resistance is relatively high for the potentially available charging
current - it wasn't any better when it was new.

All that says is poor regulation... high revs are producing more
voltage from alternator... also boiling off your electrolyte.


Possibly a bistable controlled field winding may not be the best idea, I
suppose it depends how quickly the rotor magnetisation diminishes when the
field current is switched off.

The existing rectifier/regulator pack is potted in a cast alloy heatsink
with pronounced fins, so I'm guessing its linear.

I'm thinking maybe feed the field winding with a variable output buck
regulator and include the battery in the voltage control loop.

What do you think?


Rectifiers aren't in alternator body? Is the output winding three
phase or single phase?

Linear produces heat/waste. You want to be switching the field on and
off... PWM.

Bistable works just fine, you're just more likely to have radio
"whine" that varies in pitch with RPM.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I'm thinking maybe feed the field winding with a variable output buck
regulator and include the battery in the voltage control loop.

What do you think?


Rectifiers aren't in alternator body? Is the output winding three
phase or single phase?

Its a 3-PH alternator with the rotor bolted on the end of the crankshaft -
the rectifier/regulator pack is hidden under the tank somewhere.


Linear produces heat/waste. You want to be switching the field on and
off... PWM.

There's no shielding of the wiring on the motorcycle like you'd have with a
car body - pulsing the field might even cause an RFI nuisance.


Bistable works just fine, you're just more likely to have radio
"whine" that varies in pitch with RPM.

I don't have a radio - but I pass plenty of houses that do.

"Baron" wrote in message
...
Ian Field Inscribed thus:


"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:10 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
om...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had
so many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

That beats my 1964 G.E. Transistor manual.


I'd be very interested if anyone has any old Mullard data sheets; OC,
AC, AF etc.

I've got a bit of that stuff kicking around !


Please scan and post if you have time.

Thanks.

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:06:17 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:10 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
om...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had so
many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

That beats my 1964 G.E. Transistor manual.


I'd be very interested if anyone has any old Mullard data sheets; OC, AC,
AF
etc.


I have a 1959 CBS Tube and Semiconductor data book, and 1 1960 RCA
Tube data book. I did have a Tung Sol book as well, but the silver
fish ate it :-(


Spiders eat most of the things I don't want in the flat - unfortunately they
don't seem very interested in silverfish.

Ian Field Inscribed thus:


"Baron" wrote in message
...
Ian Field Inscribed thus:


"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:10 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
news:hv20f65tahl597f69q7v3dg8o88fvrt8bd@4ax. com...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it
had so many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

That beats my 1964 G.E. Transistor manual.


I'd be very interested if anyone has any old Mullard data sheets;
OC, AC, AF etc.

I've got a bit of that stuff kicking around !


Please scan and post if you have time.

Thanks.

Its all in boxes in storage at the moment ! I've not got the space to
start and unpack any, but I do want to create electronic versions for
future reference. I'll post them when I can.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:06:17 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:10 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
om...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had so
many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

That beats my 1964 G.E. Transistor manual.


I'd be very interested if anyone has any old Mullard data sheets; OC, AC,
AF
etc.


Sorry, don't have any Mullard.

Does ring a bell though. Back when I was a young whipper snapper I
might have used one of the OC line in a 'talking on a light beam'
science fair project but all I can remember is the 'cost saving trick'
was to scrape black paint off the transistor body so it could be used
as a photo transistor. Sounds like maybe an OC7 (or 71, 75, etc).


A common trick with the OC71 but Mullard started using opaque grease to
protect the substrate assembly.

I have a small stash of NOS genuine OCP71s.

flipper Inscribed thus:

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:06:17 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:10 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
om...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had
so many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

That beats my 1964 G.E. Transistor manual.


I'd be very interested if anyone has any old Mullard data sheets; OC,
AC, AF etc.


Sorry, don't have any Mullard.

Does ring a bell though. Back when I was a young whipper snapper I
might have used one of the OC line in a 'talking on a light beam'
science fair project but all I can remember is the 'cost saving trick'
was to scrape black paint off the transistor body so it could be used
as a photo transistor. Sounds like maybe an OC7 (or 71, 75, etc).

There were various paint coated transistors in the old days that could
have the coating removed so they could be used as light sensitive
devices. I also remember filing the top off some metal can ones
because someone said in a construction project that this one or that
was more sensitive to light.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

"flipper" schreef in bericht
...
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 22:33:41 +0000, Baron
wrote:

flipper Inscribed thus:

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:06:17 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:10 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
news:hv20f65tahl597f69q7v3dg8o88fvrt8bd@4ax .com...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had
so many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

That beats my 1964 G.E. Transistor manual.


I'd be very interested if anyone has any old Mullard data sheets; OC,
AC, AF etc.


Sorry, don't have any Mullard.

Does ring a bell though. Back when I was a young whipper snapper I
might have used one of the OC line in a 'talking on a light beam'
science fair project but all I can remember is the 'cost saving trick'
was to scrape black paint off the transistor body so it could be used
as a photo transistor. Sounds like maybe an OC7 (or 71, 75, etc).

There were various paint coated transistors in the old days that could
have the coating removed so they could be used as light sensitive
devices. I also remember filing the top off some metal can ones
because someone said in a construction project that this one or that
was more sensitive to light.

It was so long ago I can't possibly remember but it was glass
encapsulated and I seem to recall the article I was using mentioned
the 'same thing' sans paint was sold as a photo transistor, and I
think that's true of the OC line.


I remember the OC13, OC14, OC44 and OC45. Black painted glass encapsulated
germanium transistors from Philips that could be used as a light dependend
semiconductor device in a boys secret transceiver project. Some years later
I heard a story at TU Delft about some calculation device - a kind of
predecessor of a transistorised computer - that tend to stop for a coffee
break. It took quite some time to find out that at about coffee break time
the sunshine reached the device and switched on a transistor that had lost a
part of its black paint.

petrus bitbyter

"Jim Thompson" wrote in message
...

Linear produces heat/waste. You want to be switching the field on and
off... PWM.

...Jim Thompson

It would be a good idea to add a catch diode in there too as
the PWM drive + the field coil will look an awful lot like a
buck regulator.
Art

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 20:18:05 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:06:17 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:10 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
news:hv20f65tahl597f69q7v3dg8o88fvrt8bd@4ax .com...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had
so
many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

That beats my 1964 G.E. Transistor manual.


I'd be very interested if anyone has any old Mullard data sheets; OC,
AC,
AF
etc.


Sorry, don't have any Mullard.

Does ring a bell though. Back when I was a young whipper snapper I
might have used one of the OC line in a 'talking on a light beam'
science fair project but all I can remember is the 'cost saving trick'
was to scrape black paint off the transistor body so it could be used
as a photo transistor. Sounds like maybe an OC7 (or 71, 75, etc).


A common trick with the OC71 but Mullard started using opaque grease to
protect the substrate assembly.

Oh yeah, su "to protect the substrate assembly."

The original 'grease' looked a lot like silicone grease, it was transucent
but still reduced sensitivity a little.

Magazines of the day sometimes published ideas for centrifuging the
transistors to move the grease to the header end of the encapsulation, one
suggestion was cut a length of wood so it can jam in the drum of a spin
dryer - clamp the transistor to one end and spin the grease off the crystal.

The opaque grease resembled blu-tack - if you ever managed to shift it, it
took the bond wires with it.

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:48:16 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 20:18:05 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:06:17 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:10 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:04:24 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
news:hv20f65tahl597f69q7v3dg8o88fvrt8bd@4a x.com...

Comes from never throwing anything away. I've still got my 1985
Signetics Linear LSI Data and Applications manual (because it had
so
many app notes).


I have the same affliction. I still have apps & data books going
back to my 1973 National Linear Apps Handbook.
Art

---
How about this beauty?: (needs a new spine...)

---
JF

That beats my 1964 G.E. Transistor manual.


I'd be very interested if anyone has any old Mullard data sheets; OC,
AC,
AF
etc.


Sorry, don't have any Mullard.

Does ring a bell though. Back when I was a young whipper snapper I
might have used one of the OC line in a 'talking on a light beam'
science fair project but all I can remember is the 'cost saving trick'
was to scrape black paint off the transistor body so it could be used
as a photo transistor. Sounds like maybe an OC7 (or 71, 75, etc).


A common trick with the OC71 but Mullard started using opaque grease to
protect the substrate assembly.

Oh yeah, su "to protect the substrate assembly."

The original 'grease' looked a lot like silicone grease, it was transucent
but still reduced sensitivity a little.

Magazines of the day sometimes published ideas for centrifuging the
transistors to move the grease to the header end of the encapsulation, one
suggestion was cut a length of wood so it can jam in the drum of a spin
dryer - clamp the transistor to one end and spin the grease off the crystal.

The opaque grease resembled blu-tack - if you ever managed to shift it, it
took the bond wires with it.


We called it "Greased Pig Snot" ;-) It was to keep the encapsulation
process from snapping the wirebonds.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 21:40:58 -0600, flipper wrote:

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 00:44:51 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
wrote:


"flipper" schreef in bericht
. ..
snip

It was so long ago I can't possibly remember but it was glass
encapsulated and I seem to recall the article I was using mentioned
the 'same thing' sans paint was sold as a photo transistor, and I
think that's true of the OC line.


I remember the OC13, OC14, OC44 and OC45. Black painted glass encapsulated
germanium transistors from Philips that could be used as a light dependend
semiconductor device in a boys secret transceiver project. Some years later
I heard a story at TU Delft about some calculation device - a kind of
predecessor of a transistorised computer - that tend to stop for a coffee
break. It took quite some time to find out that at about coffee break time
the sunshine reached the device and switched on a transistor that had lost a
part of its black paint.

petrus bitbyter

That similar to the legendary vacuum tube computer humorously dubbed
"afraid of the dark."

The dern thing would work fine during the day but when they set it off
on an all nighter project they'd get gibberish.

Turned out threshold on the neon indicators increased in the dark,
causing flip flops to fail, so they ended up putting a sign on the
door for the cleaning crew: "do not turn off lights; computer is
afraid of the dark."



While at MIT, lived in the third floor of an old house. A closet
provide access to the attic floor, so I parked my HUGE tube power
amplifier there. Only a little Germanium (battery powered)
preamplifier was in the living room. Never turned the amplifier off.

One summer vacation went home to WV for several weeks, so I turned off
the amplifier.

Upon return, reached up into attic and switched. on the amplifier...
KA-BOOM... blew a bunch of electrolytics that were over voltaged :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 15:59:17 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in message
.. .

Linear produces heat/waste. You want to be switching the field on and
off... PWM.

...Jim Thompson

It would be a good idea to add a catch diode in there too as
the PWM drive + the field coil will look an awful lot like a
buck regulator.
Art


Natch! I thought that would be "intuitively obvious to the most
casual observer" :-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.