For your engineering laugh for the day... or maybe sadness, depending
on your point of view, see page 65-66 (Ideas for Design) of the
October 9 edition of Electronic "Design" Magazine.

Sheeeeesh!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food

"Jim Thompson" wrote
in message
For your engineering laugh for the day... or maybe sadness, depending
on your point of view, see page 65-66 (Ideas for Design) of the
October 9 edition of Electronic "Design" Magazine.

Sheeeeesh!

If it's not online, can you scan it?


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:45:36 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote
in message
For your engineering laugh for the day... or maybe sadness, depending
on your point of view, see page 65-66 (Ideas for Design) of the
October 9 edition of Electronic "Design" Magazine.

Sheeeeesh!

If it's not online, can you scan it?

Sorry, I should have posted the link in the first place...

http://www.electronicdesign.com/clus...ED100908DE.pdf

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food

OOOOkay, I'm not seeing the humor. Either reverse biasing an LED will in
fact turn it off (page 65) or somebody reinventing 4000 series logic on page
66. Which one is the knee-slapper?

Jim

--
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it."
--Aristotle


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...

For your engineering laugh for the day... or maybe sadness, depending
on your point of view, see page 65-66 (Ideas for Design) of the
October 9 edition of Electronic "Design" Magazine.

Sheeeeesh!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:56:21 -0700, "RST Engineering \(jw\)"
wrote:

OOOOkay, I'm not seeing the humor. Either reverse biasing an LED will in
fact turn it off (page 65) or somebody reinventing 4000 series logic on page
66. Which one is the knee-slapper?

Jim

There are _much_ simpler ways to implement absorbing the Q-bias of the
TL431 without using an auxiliary supply... think about it... 10
seconds max allowed ;-)

Discrete 4000 series logic? That IS a true knee-slapper ;-)

Ideas for DESIGN? I think not!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
There are _much_ simpler ways to implement absorbing the Q-bias of the
TL431 without using an auxiliary supply... think about it... 10
seconds max allowed ;-)

OK, I exceeded my 10 seconds. Hint, please?

Discrete 4000 series logic? That IS a true knee-slapper ;-)

That one looks a lot like homework assignments from Digital Logic 101, where
you demonstrate that you just need, e.g., AND/OR/NOT and you can build any
arbitrary logic function. Still, the guy's in India, working at a steel
plant, so I'm not surprised that he perhaps thinks his design is rather more
novel than it really is.

At work we use a bunch of Fairchild NC7SZ57 and NC7SZ58 "universal logic gate"
parts so that we don't have to stock as many different components.

---Joel

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:33:41 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
wrote:

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
There are _much_ simpler ways to implement absorbing the Q-bias of the
TL431 without using an auxiliary supply... think about it... 10
seconds max allowed ;-)

OK, I exceeded my 10 seconds. Hint, please?

Could be as simple as a single resistor in parallel with the LED...
depending on the softness of the V-I plot for an LED. Other add a PNP
transistor and two resistors. Final form left as an exercise for the
student ;-)


Discrete 4000 series logic? That IS a true knee-slapper ;-)

That one looks a lot like homework assignments from Digital Logic 101, where
you demonstrate that you just need, e.g., AND/OR/NOT and you can build any
arbitrary logic function. Still, the guy's in India, working at a steel
plant, so I'm not surprised that he perhaps thinks his design is rather more
novel than it really is.

What is surprising is that ED Magazine's editors thought it novel
enough to publish it. Based of stuff I've seen there previously, they
may be hard up trying to find submissions ;-)


At work we use a bunch of Fairchild NC7SZ57 and NC7SZ58 "universal logic gate"
parts so that we don't have to stock as many different components.

---Joel


I just enter whatever I want at device level onto the schematic.
Although the foundry for my present project has a fairly complete
library of parts I just plunk down on my schematic ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
Could be as simple as a single resistor in parallel with the LED...
depending on the softness of the V-I plot for an LED. Other add a PNP
transistor and two resistors. Final form left as an exercise for the
student ;-)

Ah, I think I've got it. Definitely simpler than adding another power supply.

I just enter whatever I want at device level onto the schematic.
Although the foundry for my present project has a fairly complete
library of parts I just plunk down on my schematic ;-)

Lucky man!

---Joel

"flipper" wrote in message
...
Just need NOR
or just NAND.

Much better stated and useful than what I said; thanks Flipper.

On 2008-10-16, Jim Thompson wrote:

For your engineering laugh for the day... or maybe sadness, depending
on your point of view, see page 65-66 (Ideas for Design) of the
October 9 edition of Electronic "Design" Magazine.

Sheeeeesh!

200V through 10K what a waste,

putting 1K to 12V should have been enough,

I guess it's possible he was working with a damaged TL431

...Jim Thompson


--

Bye.
Jasen

On 2008-10-16, RST Engineering (jw) wrote:
OOOOkay, I'm not seeing the humor. Either reverse biasing an LED will in
fact turn it off (page 65) or somebody reinventing 4000 series logic on page
66. Which one is the knee-slapper?

Jim

There's an (inadequate) 1N914 diode to protect the LED from the 100-150v,
reverse bias but the diode is saved by the fact that the TL431 has max V(KA)
of 37V

Bye.
Jasen

On 18 Oct 2008 09:32:18 GMT, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2008-10-16, Jim Thompson wrote:

For your engineering laugh for the day... or maybe sadness, depending
on your point of view, see page 65-66 (Ideas for Design) of the
October 9 edition of Electronic "Design" Magazine.

Sheeeeesh!

200V through 10K what a waste,


The K is ALWAYS lower case for the kilo designation.

Back then, they weren't into efficiency as much.



putting 1K to 12V should have been enough,

The K is ALWAYS lower case for the kilo designation.

I guess it's possible he was working with a damaged TL431

On 18 Oct 2008 09:32:18 GMT, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2008-10-16, Jim Thompson wrote:

For your engineering laugh for the day... or maybe sadness, depending
on your point of view, see page 65-66 (Ideas for Design) of the
October 9 edition of Electronic "Design" Magazine.

Sheeeeesh!

200V through 10K what a waste,

Does the schematic in your copy actually say that the voltage source
at the top of R2 is 200V? The copy I just got from the link provided
has it as 20.0V.

Oh, and when the 431 is turned on, there would be 199V across 10k
which would dissipate 3.96 watts.

That's one "advantage" of print, everyone gets all the same goofs.
With websites and pdf's, such things can be edited and reloaded in no
time. Perhaps someone at E"D" (hmm, seems I've heard E.D. as meaning
something else...) has been informed of this thread.

Big Brother would LOVE The Internet!


putting 1K to 12V should have been enough,

I guess it's possible he was working with a damaged TL431

...Jim Thompson

"Jasen Betts" schreef in bericht
...
On 2008-10-16, Jim Thompson
wrote:

For your engineering laugh for the day... or maybe sadness, depending
on your point of view, see page 65-66 (Ideas for Design) of the
October 9 edition of Electronic "Design" Magazine.

Sheeeeesh!

200V through 10K what a waste,

putting 1K to 12V should have been enough,

I guess it's possible he was working with a damaged TL431

...Jim Thompson


--

Bye.
Jasen

I doubt I'd read the issue if Jim didn't point to it and I'm sure had not
give the articles a second glance. Now I looked at the first one and found
both solutions Jim mentioned though not within 10s. I had to find the TL431
datasheet and read it to know what the beast was supposed to do anyhow. IMHO
this TL431 is not the right circuit for the purpose mentioned. I'd use some
simple comparator for it. Nevertheles, if you're building a one of and have
the TL431 at your hands, why not use it? The same applies for the
"solution". If the 20.0V (not 200V as you'd blow the TL431) is available why
not use it? As an example of "circuit design" I can neither laugh nor cry
about it. It's simply not interesting and I wonder why Jim mentioned it.
Maybe he's growing old?

As for the second "design idea" I did not even start to read it (except for
the title that is.)

petrus bitbyter

On 2008-10-18, Archimedes' Lever wrote:
On 18 Oct 2008 09:32:18 GMT, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2008-10-16, Jim Thompson wrote:

For your engineering laugh for the day... or maybe sadness, depending
on your point of view, see page 65-66 (Ideas for Design) of the
October 9 edition of Electronic "Design" Magazine.

Sheeeeesh!

200V through 10K what a waste,


The K is ALWAYS lower case for the kilo designation.

my bad

Back then, they weren't into efficiency as much.

How things have changed this past week!

Bye.
Jasen

On 2008-10-18, Ben Bradley wrote:
On 18 Oct 2008 09:32:18 GMT, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2008-10-16, Jim Thompson wrote:

For your engineering laugh for the day... or maybe sadness, depending
on your point of view, see page 65-66 (Ideas for Design) of the
October 9 edition of Electronic "Design" Magazine.

Sheeeeesh!

200V through 10K what a waste,

Does the schematic in your copy actually say that the voltage source
at the top of R2 is 200V? The copy I just got from the link provided
has it as 20.0V.

oh yeah, if I zoom it to 200% the point is clearly visible, why do they
write 20.0 when they mean 20?

Oh, and when the 431 is turned on, there would be 199V across 10k
which would dissipate 3.96 watts.

That's one "advantage" of print, everyone gets all the same goofs.
With websites and pdf's, such things can be edited and reloaded in no
time. Perhaps someone at E"D" (hmm, seems I've heard E.D. as meaning
something else...) has been informed of this thread.

I'm reading the PDF.

Bye.
Jasen

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 01:35:26 +0200, "petrus bitbyter"
wrote:


"Jasen Betts" schreef in bericht
...
On 2008-10-16, Jim Thompson
wrote:

For your engineering laugh for the day... or maybe sadness, depending
on your point of view, see page 65-66 (Ideas for Design) of the
October 9 edition of Electronic "Design" Magazine.

Sheeeeesh!

200V through 10K what a waste,

putting 1K to 12V should have been enough,

I guess it's possible he was working with a damaged TL431

...Jim Thompson


--

Bye.
Jasen

I doubt I'd read the issue if Jim didn't point to it and I'm sure had not
give the articles a second glance. Now I looked at the first one and found
both solutions Jim mentioned though not within 10s. I had to find the TL431
datasheet and read it to know what the beast was supposed to do anyhow. IMHO
this TL431 is not the right circuit for the purpose mentioned. I'd use some
simple comparator for it. Nevertheles, if you're building a one of and have
the TL431 at your hands, why not use it? The same applies for the
"solution". If the 20.0V (not 200V as you'd blow the TL431) is available why
not use it? As an example of "circuit design" I can neither laugh nor cry
about it. It's simply not interesting and I wonder why Jim mentioned it.

It's not an exemplary circuit.

Maybe he's growing old?

As each day passes YOU are one day closer to death ;-)


As for the second "design idea" I did not even start to read it (except for
the title that is.)

petrus bitbyter


...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food