http://mxrk.net/home/2008/1/9/porn-a...brication.html

"ian field" wrote in message
...


http://mxrk.net/home/2008/1/9/porn-a...brication.html


Its amazing! Made by any klutz with with stuff you can find in any kitchen.

"ian field" wrote in message


http://mxrk.net/home/2008/1/9/porn-a...brication.html

Wouldn't it be easier to make a transistor?


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On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:43:55 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"ian field" wrote in message


http://mxrk.net/home/2008/1/9/porn-a...f-vacuum-tube-
fabrication.html

Wouldn't it be easier to make a transistor?

No. Transistors depend critically on concentrations of dopant elements
that were too low to measure before someone noticed that copper from
Chile made better copper oxide rectifiers than North American copper.
That led to better analytic methods and ultrapure materials that made the
first transistors work. Some of the time. The basic tube is just an
incandescent lamp with extra parts, all big enough to be handled with
long-nose pliers.

"BobW" wrote in message

"Phaedeaux" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:43:55 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"ian field" wrote in message


http://mxrk.net/home/2008/1/9/porn-a...f-vacuum-tube-
fabrication.html

Wouldn't it be easier to make a transistor?

No. Transistors depend critically on concentrations of dopant
elements that were too low to measure before someone noticed that
copper from Chile made better copper oxide rectifiers than North
American copper. That led to better analytic methods and ultrapure
materials that made the first transistors work. Some of the time.
The basic tube is just an incandescent lamp with extra parts, all
big enough to be handled with long-nose pliers.


I would bet that Tom's remark was offered tongue-in-cheek.

Partly. The tube maker relied on sources of materials, and a ridiculously
well-equipped workshop, so if you had a source of pure silicon and dopants,
etc, there might be fewer steps to getting some kind of device. The first
one made at Bell Labs looked pretty rough.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add another
zero, and remove the last word.

On 9/21/08 8:21 AM, in article , "Tom Del
Rosso" wrote:


"BobW" wrote in message

"Phaedeaux" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:43:55 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"ian field" wrote in message


http://mxrk.net/home/2008/1/9/porn-a...f-vacuum-tube-
fabrication.html

Wouldn't it be easier to make a transistor?

No. Transistors depend critically on concentrations of dopant
elements that were too low to measure before someone noticed that
copper from Chile made better copper oxide rectifiers than North
American copper. That led to better analytic methods and ultrapure
materials that made the first transistors work. Some of the time.
The basic tube is just an incandescent lamp with extra parts, all
big enough to be handled with long-nose pliers.


I would bet that Tom's remark was offered tongue-in-cheek.

Partly. The tube maker relied on sources of materials, and a ridiculously
well-equipped workshop, so if you had a source of pure silicon and dopants,
etc, there might be fewer steps to getting some kind of device. The first
one made at Bell Labs looked pretty rough.


No more rough than a chunk of galena and a couple cat whiskers.

flipper wrote:

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:46:34 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/21/08 8:21 AM, in article , "Tom Del
Rosso" wrote:


"BobW" wrote in message

"Phaedeaux" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:43:55 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"ian field" wrote in message


http://mxrk.net/home/2008/1/9/porn-a...f-vacuum-tube-
fabrication.html

Wouldn't it be easier to make a transistor?

No. Transistors depend critically on concentrations of dopant
elements that were too low to measure before someone noticed that
copper from Chile made better copper oxide rectifiers than North
American copper. That led to better analytic methods and ultrapure
materials that made the first transistors work. Some of the time.
The basic tube is just an incandescent lamp with extra parts, all
big enough to be handled with long-nose pliers.


I would bet that Tom's remark was offered tongue-in-cheek.

Partly. The tube maker relied on sources of materials, and a ridiculously
well-equipped workshop, so if you had a source of pure silicon and dopants,
etc, there might be fewer steps to getting some kind of device. The first
one made at Bell Labs looked pretty rough.


No more rough than a chunk of galena and a couple cat whiskers.

How do you propose positioning the cat whiskers a few thou apart?


Use a VERY small cat?


For amusement, a 'production' point contact transistor

http://www.porticus.org/bell/images/2n23_1.jpg


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The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:41:31 -0500, flipper wrote:

No more rough than a chunk of galena and a couple cat whiskers.

How do you propose positioning the cat whiskers a few thou apart?

Micrometer positioners? A big knob on a fine-thread screw can do a lot.
The real problem would be finding the sweet spots on that crystal. I
vaguely recall articles from the pre-tube era about people experimenting
with injecting a local signal into a crystal detector to make what would
later be called an autodyne receiver. Those projects were abandoned when
vacuum tubes became generally available. If Lee De Forest hadn't
invented the high-vacuum triode when he did, we might have had solid-
state electronics a decade or two earlier.

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:46:34 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/21/08 8:21 AM, in article , "Tom Del
Rosso" wrote:


"BobW" wrote in message

"Phaedeaux" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:43:55 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"ian field" wrote in message


http://mxrk.net/home/2008/1/9/porn-a...f-vacuum-tube-
fabrication.html

Wouldn't it be easier to make a transistor?

No. Transistors depend critically on concentrations of dopant
elements that were too low to measure before someone noticed that
copper from Chile made better copper oxide rectifiers than North
American copper. That led to better analytic methods and ultrapure
materials that made the first transistors work. Some of the time.
The basic tube is just an incandescent lamp with extra parts, all
big enough to be handled with long-nose pliers.


I would bet that Tom's remark was offered tongue-in-cheek.

Partly. The tube maker relied on sources of materials, and a
ridiculously
well-equipped workshop, so if you had a source of pure silicon and
dopants,
etc, there might be fewer steps to getting some kind of device. The
first
one made at Bell Labs looked pretty rough.


No more rough than a chunk of galena and a couple cat whiskers.

How do you propose positioning the cat whiskers a few thou apart?

If I remember the history correctly, the lab that pioneered the point
contact transistor used a sliver of glass plated with metal on opposing
sides with the sharpest edge resting in contact with the semiconductor.

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:46:34 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/21/08 8:21 AM, in article , "Tom Del
Rosso" wrote:


"BobW" wrote in message

"Phaedeaux" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:43:55 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"ian field" wrote in message


http://mxrk.net/home/2008/1/9/porn-a...f-vacuum-tube-
fabrication.html

Wouldn't it be easier to make a transistor?

No. Transistors depend critically on concentrations of dopant
elements that were too low to measure before someone noticed that
copper from Chile made better copper oxide rectifiers than North
American copper. That led to better analytic methods and ultrapure
materials that made the first transistors work. Some of the time.
The basic tube is just an incandescent lamp with extra parts, all
big enough to be handled with long-nose pliers.


I would bet that Tom's remark was offered tongue-in-cheek.

Partly. The tube maker relied on sources of materials, and a
ridiculously
well-equipped workshop, so if you had a source of pure silicon and
dopants,
etc, there might be fewer steps to getting some kind of device. The
first
one made at Bell Labs looked pretty rough.


No more rough than a chunk of galena and a couple cat whiskers.

How do you propose positioning the cat whiskers a few thou apart?

If I remember the history correctly, the lab that pioneered the point
contact transistor used a sliver of glass plated with metal on opposing
sides with the sharpest edge resting in contact with the semiconductor.

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:31:04 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:46:34 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/21/08 8:21 AM, in article , "Tom Del
Rosso" wrote:


"BobW" wrote in message

"Phaedeaux" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:43:55 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"ian field" wrote in message


http://mxrk.net/home/2008/1/9/porn-a...f-vacuum-tube-
fabrication.html

Wouldn't it be easier to make a transistor?

No. Transistors depend critically on concentrations of dopant
elements that were too low to measure before someone noticed that
copper from Chile made better copper oxide rectifiers than North
American copper. That led to better analytic methods and ultrapure
materials that made the first transistors work. Some of the time.
The basic tube is just an incandescent lamp with extra parts, all
big enough to be handled with long-nose pliers.


I would bet that Tom's remark was offered tongue-in-cheek.

Partly. The tube maker relied on sources of materials, and a
ridiculously
well-equipped workshop, so if you had a source of pure silicon and
dopants,
etc, there might be fewer steps to getting some kind of device. The
first
one made at Bell Labs looked pretty rough.


No more rough than a chunk of galena and a couple cat whiskers.

How do you propose positioning the cat whiskers a few thou apart?

If I remember the history correctly, the lab that pioneered the point
contact transistor used a sliver of glass plated with metal on opposing
sides with the sharpest edge resting in contact with the semiconductor.


A piece of gold foil was glued to the edge of a plastic wedge and then
the foil was sliced with a razor at the tip of the triangle. to make
the 'small gap' between the 'electrodes'.

I knew it was something along those lines, Mullard made alloy diffused
transistors by melting beads of indium into each side of a strip of
germanium.

On 9/21/08 4:41 PM, in article ,
"flipper" wrote:

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:46:34 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/21/08 8:21 AM, in article , "Tom Del
Rosso" wrote:


"BobW" wrote in message

"Phaedeaux" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:43:55 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"ian field" wrote in message


http://mxrk.net/home/2008/1/9/porn-a...f-vacuum-tube-
fabrication.html

Wouldn't it be easier to make a transistor?

No. Transistors depend critically on concentrations of dopant
elements that were too low to measure before someone noticed that
copper from Chile made better copper oxide rectifiers than North
American copper. That led to better analytic methods and ultrapure
materials that made the first transistors work. Some of the time.
The basic tube is just an incandescent lamp with extra parts, all
big enough to be handled with long-nose pliers.


I would bet that Tom's remark was offered tongue-in-cheek.

Partly. The tube maker relied on sources of materials, and a ridiculously
well-equipped workshop, so if you had a source of pure silicon and dopants,
etc, there might be fewer steps to getting some kind of device. The first
one made at Bell Labs looked pretty rough.


No more rough than a chunk of galena and a couple cat whiskers.

How do you propose positioning the cat whiskers a few thou apart?

For amusement, a 'production' point contact transistor

http://www.porticus.org/bell/images/2n23_1.jpg


Try this for the original one.

http://www.pbs.org/transistor/backgr...miraclemo.html

On 9/23/08 11:23 PM, in article ,
"flipper" wrote:

On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:13:15 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/21/08 4:41 PM, in article ,
"flipper" wrote:

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:46:34 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/21/08 8:21 AM, in article , "Tom Del
Rosso" wrote:


"BobW" wrote in message

"Phaedeaux" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:43:55 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"ian field" wrote in message


http://mxrk.net/home/2008/1/9/porn-a...f-vacuum-tube-
fabrication.html

Wouldn't it be easier to make a transistor?

No. Transistors depend critically on concentrations of dopant
elements that were too low to measure before someone noticed that
copper from Chile made better copper oxide rectifiers than North
American copper. That led to better analytic methods and ultrapure
materials that made the first transistors work. Some of the time.
The basic tube is just an incandescent lamp with extra parts, all
big enough to be handled with long-nose pliers.


I would bet that Tom's remark was offered tongue-in-cheek.

Partly. The tube maker relied on sources of materials, and a ridiculously
well-equipped workshop, so if you had a source of pure silicon and
dopants,
etc, there might be fewer steps to getting some kind of device. The first
one made at Bell Labs looked pretty rough.


No more rough than a chunk of galena and a couple cat whiskers.

How do you propose positioning the cat whiskers a few thou apart?

For amusement, a 'production' point contact transistor

http://www.porticus.org/bell/images/2n23_1.jpg


Try this for the original one.

http://www.pbs.org/transistor/backgr...miraclemo.html

Thanks. I've seen it.

The matter came up in comparison to the tube making video and I picked
Type A because it's the first manufactured one, which would be the
first one comparable to making a batch of tubes vs a laboratory
curiosity.

Lab curiosity? Much more a proof of concept.

For curiosity, with patience I think one could be duplicated at home.

On 9/24/08 7:57 AM, in article ,
"flipper" wrote:

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:16:12 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/23/08 11:23 PM, in article ,
"flipper" wrote:

On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:13:15 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/21/08 4:41 PM, in article ,
"flipper" wrote:

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:46:34 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/21/08 8:21 AM, in article , "Tom Del
Rosso" wrote:


"BobW" wrote in message

"Phaedeaux" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:43:55 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"ian field" wrote in message


http://mxrk.net/home/2008/1/9/porn-a...f-vacuum-tube-
fabrication.html

Wouldn't it be easier to make a transistor?

No. Transistors depend critically on concentrations of dopant
elements that were too low to measure before someone noticed that
copper from Chile made better copper oxide rectifiers than North
American copper. That led to better analytic methods and ultrapure
materials that made the first transistors work. Some of the time.
The basic tube is just an incandescent lamp with extra parts, all
big enough to be handled with long-nose pliers.


I would bet that Tom's remark was offered tongue-in-cheek.

Partly. The tube maker relied on sources of materials, and a
ridiculously
well-equipped workshop, so if you had a source of pure silicon and
dopants,
etc, there might be fewer steps to getting some kind of device. The
first
one made at Bell Labs looked pretty rough.


No more rough than a chunk of galena and a couple cat whiskers.

How do you propose positioning the cat whiskers a few thou apart?

For amusement, a 'production' point contact transistor

http://www.porticus.org/bell/images/2n23_1.jpg


Try this for the original one.

http://www.pbs.org/transistor/backgr...miraclemo.html

Thanks. I've seen it.

The matter came up in comparison to the tube making video and I picked
Type A because it's the first manufactured one, which would be the
first one comparable to making a batch of tubes vs a laboratory
curiosity.

Lab curiosity? Much more a proof of concept.

A 'proof of concept' is still a lab curiosity, which simply means
"great, the theory works but can we make predicable, practical,
devices in quantity?"

The answer, of course, if yes you can but the lab lash up isn't how
you'd do it.

For curiosity, with patience I think one could be duplicated at home.

My point was the tubes being made in the video are consistent,
repeatable, practical devices, not a finicky curiosity to set on a
desk.

If you only want something akin to your 'proof of concept' I've seen
where people have taken a light bulb filament, metal plate, some wire
bent for a grid, stuffed them into a glass envelop, pulled a modest
vacuum and, voila, it behaved like a triode.

They didn't bother with 'special' materials and precision alignments,
didn't bake 'em, didn't bother with gettering, the seals weren't
permanent and leaked over time, so you periodically re-pump, but it
does work.

Ah, I found the other one I remembered. This guy makes some that look
a lot like a votive turned upside down on a glass ashtray. "Beehive
Triodes"

http://www.hpfriedrichs.com/bks-ioa-gallery1.htm

Interestingly enough, in gallery 2 he also has some homemade
transistors.

Have to buy his book for the details.








Great link. Imagine the time that went into all of that.

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:16:12 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/23/08 11:23 PM, in article
,
"flipper" wrote:

On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:13:15 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/21/08 4:41 PM, in article
,
"flipper" wrote:

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:46:34 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/21/08 8:21 AM, in article , "Tom
Del
Rosso" wrote:


"BobW" wrote in message

"Phaedeaux" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:43:55 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"ian field" wrote in message


http://mxrk.net/home/2008/1/9/porn-a...f-vacuum-tube-
fabrication.html

Wouldn't it be easier to make a transistor?

No. Transistors depend critically on concentrations of dopant
elements that were too low to measure before someone noticed that
copper from Chile made better copper oxide rectifiers than North
American copper. That led to better analytic methods and
ultrapure
materials that made the first transistors work. Some of the
time.
The basic tube is just an incandescent lamp with extra parts, all
big enough to be handled with long-nose pliers.


I would bet that Tom's remark was offered tongue-in-cheek.

Partly. The tube maker relied on sources of materials, and a
ridiculously
well-equipped workshop, so if you had a source of pure silicon and
dopants,
etc, there might be fewer steps to getting some kind of device.
The first
one made at Bell Labs looked pretty rough.


No more rough than a chunk of galena and a couple cat whiskers.

How do you propose positioning the cat whiskers a few thou apart?

For amusement, a 'production' point contact transistor

http://www.porticus.org/bell/images/2n23_1.jpg


Try this for the original one.

http://www.pbs.org/transistor/backgr...miraclemo.html

Thanks. I've seen it.

The matter came up in comparison to the tube making video and I picked
Type A because it's the first manufactured one, which would be the
first one comparable to making a batch of tubes vs a laboratory
curiosity.

Lab curiosity? Much more a proof of concept.

A 'proof of concept' is still a lab curiosity, which simply means
"great, the theory works but can we make predicable, practical,
devices in quantity?"

The answer, of course, if yes you can but the lab lash up isn't how
you'd do it.

For curiosity, with patience I think one could be duplicated at home.

My point was the tubes being made in the video are consistent,
repeatable, practical devices, not a finicky curiosity to set on a
desk.

If you only want something akin to your 'proof of concept' I've seen
where people have taken a light bulb filament, metal plate, some wire
bent for a grid, stuffed them into a glass envelop, pulled a modest
vacuum and, voila, it behaved like a triode.

They didn't bother with 'special' materials and precision alignments,
didn't bake 'em, didn't bother with gettering, the seals weren't
permanent and leaked over time, so you periodically re-pump, but it
does work.

Ah, I found the other one I remembered. This guy makes some that look
a lot like a votive turned upside down on a glass ashtray. "Beehive
Triodes"

http://www.hpfriedrichs.com/bks-ioa-gallery1.htm

Interestingly enough, in gallery 2 he also has some homemade
transistors.

Have to buy his book for the details.



Ta. A really fascinating site!