** Another brain teaser.

The scope trace shows the actual, continuous AC current draw of a common
household item operated on 240 volts/50Hz.

Current peaks = +/- 4.4 amps.

RMS value = 0.24 amps.

PF = 0.23

CF = 18.3



......... Phil

Phil Allison a écrit :
** Another brain teaser.

The scope trace shows the actual, continuous AC current draw of a common
household item operated on 240 volts/50Hz.

Current peaks = +/- 4.4 amps.

RMS value = 0.24 amps.

PF = 0.23

CF = 18.3




You gave the answer in the pic name :-)


--
Thanks,
Fred.

"Fred Bartoli"
** Another brain teaser.

The scope trace shows the actual, continuous AC current draw of a common
household item operated on 240 volts/50Hz.

Current peaks = +/- 4.4 amps.

RMS value = 0.24 amps.

PF = 0.23

CF = 18.3



You gave the answer in the pic name :-)



** You were not supposed to see that !!

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?




......... Phil

Phil Allison a écrit :
"Fred Bartoli"
** Another brain teaser.
The scope trace shows the actual, continuous AC current draw of a common
household item operated on 240 volts/50Hz.

Current peaks = +/- 4.4 amps.

RMS value = 0.24 amps.

PF = 0.23

CF = 18.3


You gave the answer in the pic name :-)



** You were not supposed to see that !!

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?


CFL HF input cap + triac delayed firing optimized for highest peak
current (at top of sinusoid).

--
Thanks,
Fred.

"Fred Bartoli"

** Another brain teaser.

The scope trace shows the actual, continuous AC current draw of a
common household item operated on 240 volts/50Hz.

Current peaks = +/- 4.4 amps.

RMS value = 0.24 amps.

PF = 0.23

CF = 18.3


You gave the answer in the pic name :-)


** You were not supposed to see that !!

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?


CFL HF input cap + triac delayed firing optimized for highest peak current
(at top of sinusoid).



** The control on the commercially made, domestic lamp dimmer is set to max.

With incandescent lamps it traverses the whole, half cycle range just fine.

At lower settings, the current draw becomes half wave with much larger
peaks.

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?



........ Phil

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:53:13 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:


"Fred Bartoli"

** Another brain teaser.

The scope trace shows the actual, continuous AC current draw of a
common household item operated on 240 volts/50Hz.

Current peaks = +/- 4.4 amps.

RMS value = 0.24 amps.

PF = 0.23

CF = 18.3


You gave the answer in the pic name :-)


** You were not supposed to see that !!

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?


CFL HF input cap + triac delayed firing optimized for highest peak current
(at top of sinusoid).



** The control on the commercially made, domestic lamp dimmer is set to max.

With incandescent lamps it traverses the whole, half cycle range just fine.

At lower settings, the current draw becomes half wave with much larger
peaks.

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?

---
EMI/RFI?


--
JF

"Phil Allison" wrote in message

"Fred Bartoli"

** Another brain teaser.

The scope trace shows the actual, continuous AC
current draw of a common household item operated on
240 volts/50Hz. Current peaks = +/- 4.4 amps.

RMS value = 0.24 amps.

PF = 0.23

CF = 18.3


You gave the answer in the pic name :-)


** You were not supposed to see that !!

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?


CFL HF input cap + triac delayed firing optimized for
highest peak current (at top of sinusoid).



** The control on the commercially made, domestic lamp
dimmer is set to max.
With incandescent lamps it traverses the whole, half
cycle range just fine.
At lower settings, the current draw becomes half wave
with much larger peaks.

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?

Is this CFL designed to be dimmed?

If the CFL is not designed to be dimmed, my persoanal experience says that
the real question is whether or not the dimmer or the bulb will be the first
to emit smoke and die. The reason for the failure would be the extremely
high current peaks.

Phil Allison wrote:

** The control on the commercially made, domestic lamp dimmer is set to max.

With incandescent lamps it traverses the whole, half cycle range just fine.

At lower settings, the current draw becomes half wave with much larger
peaks.

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?

Aside from the EMI, does it buzz a lot ?

Graham

"Arny Krueger"

** Another brain teaser.

The scope trace shows the actual, continuous AC
current draw of a common household item operated on
240 volts/50Hz. Current peaks = +/- 4.4 amps.

RMS value = 0.24 amps.

PF = 0.23

CF = 18.3


You gave the answer in the pic name :-)


** You were not supposed to see that !!

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?


CFL HF input cap + triac delayed firing optimized for
highest peak current (at top of sinusoid).



** The control on the commercially made, domestic lamp
dimmer is set to max.
With incandescent lamps it traverses the whole, half
cycle range just fine.
At lower settings, the current draw becomes half wave
with much larger peaks.

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?

Is this CFL designed to be dimmed?



** In common with almost all of them - no.


If the CFL is not designed to be dimmed, my persoanal experience says that
the real question is whether or not the dimmer or the bulb will be the
first to emit smoke and die. The reason for the failure would be the
extremely high current peaks.


** Arny has supplied the correct answer.

The CFL in my test was a single Philips "Genie" rated at 11 watts.

The PROBLEM is that it APPEARS to a user to work more or less OK on a
common triac dimmer.

However, the RMS current draw when used with one is 3 to 6 times the value
normally seen - which will soon over temp an internal 10 ohm resistor in
line with the AC supply. Smoke and fire is the result.

With several CFLs on the same dimmer circuit - the combined current peaks
will likely destroy the triac in a few seconds.

Makers supply either NO warning or a completely inadequate warning of this
serious hazard to purchasers.

With the impending ban on incandescent lamps here in Australia plus Europe
and elsewhere - this is gonna cause a major safety issue.



......... Phil

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 06:57:54 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:


"Arny Krueger"

** Another brain teaser.

The scope trace shows the actual, continuous AC
current draw of a common household item operated on
240 volts/50Hz. Current peaks = +/- 4.4 amps.

RMS value = 0.24 amps.

PF = 0.23

CF = 18.3


You gave the answer in the pic name :-)


** You were not supposed to see that !!

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?


CFL HF input cap + triac delayed firing optimized for
highest peak current (at top of sinusoid).



** The control on the commercially made, domestic lamp
dimmer is set to max.
With incandescent lamps it traverses the whole, half
cycle range just fine.
At lower settings, the current draw becomes half wave
with much larger peaks.

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?

Is this CFL designed to be dimmed?



** In common with almost all of them - no.


If the CFL is not designed to be dimmed, my persoanal experience says that
the real question is whether or not the dimmer or the bulb will be the
first to emit smoke and die. The reason for the failure would be the
extremely high current peaks.


** Arny has supplied the correct answer.

The CFL in my test was a single Philips "Genie" rated at 11 watts.

The PROBLEM is that it APPEARS to a user to work more or less OK on a
common triac dimmer.

However, the RMS current draw when used with one is 3 to 6 times the value
normally seen - which will soon over temp an internal 10 ohm resistor in
line with the AC supply. Smoke and fire is the result.

With several CFLs on the same dimmer circuit - the combined current peaks
will likely destroy the triac in a few seconds.

Makers supply either NO warning or a completely inadequate warning of this
serious hazard to purchasers.

With the impending ban on incandescent lamps here in Australia plus Europe
and elsewhere - this is gonna cause a major safety issue.



........ Phil

---
Very nice.

Thanks. :-)


--
JF

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 06:57:54 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:


"Arny Krueger"

** Another brain teaser.

The scope trace shows the actual, continuous AC
current draw of a common household item operated on
240 volts/50Hz. Current peaks = +/- 4.4 amps.

RMS value = 0.24 amps.

PF = 0.23

CF = 18.3


You gave the answer in the pic name :-)


** You were not supposed to see that !!

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?


CFL HF input cap + triac delayed firing optimized for
highest peak current (at top of sinusoid).



** The control on the commercially made, domestic lamp
dimmer is set to max.
With incandescent lamps it traverses the whole, half
cycle range just fine.
At lower settings, the current draw becomes half wave
with much larger peaks.

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?

Is this CFL designed to be dimmed?



** In common with almost all of them - no.


If the CFL is not designed to be dimmed, my persoanal experience says that
the real question is whether or not the dimmer or the bulb will be the
first to emit smoke and die. The reason for the failure would be the
extremely high current peaks.


** Arny has supplied the correct answer.

The CFL in my test was a single Philips "Genie" rated at 11 watts.

The PROBLEM is that it APPEARS to a user to work more or less OK on a
common triac dimmer.

However, the RMS current draw when used with one is 3 to 6 times the value
normally seen - which will soon over temp an internal 10 ohm resistor in
line with the AC supply. Smoke and fire is the result.

With several CFLs on the same dimmer circuit - the combined current peaks
will likely destroy the triac in a few seconds.

Makers supply either NO warning or a completely inadequate warning of this
serious hazard to purchasers.

With the impending ban on incandescent lamps here in Australia plus Europe
and elsewhere - this is gonna cause a major safety issue.



........ Phil




There will be a huge black market in Mexican incandescent lamps, as
there already is in Cokes (made with real sugar down there!) and of
course narcotics.

John

"John Fields"


** Arny has supplied the correct answer.

The CFL in my test was a single Philips "Genie" rated at 11 watts.

The PROBLEM is that it APPEARS to a user to work more or less OK on a
common triac dimmer.

However, the RMS current draw when used with one is 3 to 6 times the value
normally seen - which will soon over temp an internal 10 ohm resistor in
line with the AC supply. Smoke and fire is the result.

With several CFLs on the same dimmer circuit - the combined current peaks
will likely destroy the triac in a few seconds.

Makers supply either NO warning or a completely inadequate warning of this
serious hazard to purchasers.

With the impending ban on incandescent lamps here in Australia plus Europe
and elsewhere - this is gonna cause a major safety issue.


Very nice.

Thanks. :-)



** Coming from you, John - that is a rare compliment.




....... Phil

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 20:59:45 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:



** Coming from you, John - that is a rare compliment.

---
My pleasure. :-)


--
JF

"Phil Allison" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger"

** Another brain teaser.

** The control on the commercially made, domestic lamp
dimmer is set to max.
With incandescent lamps it traverses the whole, half
cycle range just fine.
At lower settings, the current draw becomes half wave
with much larger peaks.

Now, can you say what the problem with this is ?

Is this CFL designed to be dimmed?


** In common with almost all of them - no.

This is a mystery to me: I have bought about 100 CFL that are fully
dimmable. Some for as little as $5.

If the CFL is not designed to be dimmed, my personal
experience says that the real question is whether or not
the dimmer or the bulb will be the first to emit smoke
and die. The reason for the failure would be the
extremely high current peaks.

** Arny has supplied the correct answer.

The CFL in my test was a single Philips "Genie" rated at
11 watts.

The PROBLEM is that it APPEARS to a user to work more
or less OK on a common triac dimmer.

However, the RMS current draw when used with one is 3 to
6 times the value normally seen - which will soon over
temp an internal 10 ohm resistor in line with the AC
supply. Smoke and fire is the result.

With several CFLs on the same dimmer circuit - the
combined current peaks will likely destroy the triac in a
few seconds.

Makers supply either NO warning or a completely
inadequate warning of this serious hazard to purchasers.

I checked the CFL on sale in retail stores around me. There was always a
warning on the ceramic part of the base, and either a warning on the
packaging, or the packaging exposed the warning on the bulb.

With the impending ban on incandescent lamps here in
Australia plus Europe and elsewhere - this is gonna
cause a major safety issue.

I agree. Given that dimmer-friendly CFLs exist and are available on the web,
why aren't they endemic in the retail stores?

"Arny Krueger"
"Phil Allison"


Makers supply either NO warning or a completely
inadequate warning of this serious hazard to purchasers.

I checked the CFL on sale in retail stores around me. There was always a
warning on the ceramic part of the base, and either a warning on the
packaging, or the packaging exposed the warning on the bulb.



** There is no ** adequate** warning either on or with the packing of any
CFL.




........ Phil

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 15:58:10 -0700 in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic, John Larkin wrote,
There will be a huge black market in Mexican incandescent lamps, as
there already is in Cokes (made with real sugar down there!) and of
course narcotics.

And, of course, freon.