On 17 Sep 2005 16:26:18 -0700, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:
On 17 Sep 2005 13:43:19 -0700, wrote:



The spec. is *not* clear on the point of the size of the store at all.

It is very clear. Please look again.

I have. It is not clear.

It is Saturday night and back from the pub.


Are you ?





his thing looks very impressive to me and
performs better than a separate cylinder, and cheaper as well.

Untrue.

I have looked at the specs, it performs better.

Nonsense. You don't have figures for a separate cylinder.

I compared it to the ACV Smart range of domestic cylinders, which have
the fastest recovery of any cylinder available..

Says who?

Just about everyone. Tank in tanks have the fastest recovery rate of
any tanks.

I'm fully aware of that, and it is fairly obvious as a result of the
heat exchange contact area.

I was asking for information confirming that the ACV Smart range is
the fastest recovery of any cylinder available as you have asserted.




Since it
is possible to design a storage system component by component, it is
possible to achieve virtually whatever performance is wanted.


If you have all the space in the world and a bottom les pit of money
then you are right. However, I live in the real world.

The thing is that it is possible to fit a better system than the ACV
box into about the same amount of usable space far more conveniently
and without needing a crane to do it.

I know of none. What system? I am eager to know.

Very simple. Fast recovery cylinder of storage capacity adequate for
the requirements under all conditions of water temperature and pattern
of use.



I looked at a megaflow and they were around £1.5K with all the valves
attached, then I would have to buy a top quality boiler around 30 kiloW
pushing it up to well over £2K. I may as well buy a Viessmann,
Gledhill or ACV floor mounted combi and save money, hassle and lots of
space.

Except that it doesn't save any usable space at all.

It does, that is why I have homed in on it.

I said *usable* space.

I know.



The thing is
larger than the footprint of a washing machine and taller as well.
It's also larger than a domestic cylinder footprint.

About the same as a cylinder has valves hanging off it. There is no
separate boiler taking up space.

The difference is that a system boiler can be conveniently fitted in a
kitchen cupboard space,

A kitchen? Are you kidding?

They do in mine. Are you buying kitchen furniture in funny places as
well or is your problem that you are renovating council flats?



an airing cupboard or a loft.

Why have two when one can do it? There is no logic in that, only extra
expense, time and valuable space used up.

There's every logic in it. By having separate components it is
possible to locate them easily in a whole variety of places
appropriate to the situation. If you have a single big box, you are
going to have to provision specially for it.

How do you expect to get a 670mm box weighing 170kg into a loft space?




A cylinder can
be fitted into an airing cupboard or loft.

Why have two one one can do it cheaper.

Because it's possible and can make more efficient use of space.




Your box of tricks is of a non-standard size and is extremely heavy.

Standard size? It would not be fitting in a kitchen.

So space from another room wood have to be found.....







am into delivering flows to at
least 1 bathroom and en-suite, more usually two full bathrooms, and
this baby delivers without any fuss and all in one box which is easy to
connect up.

I can see why you would find it attractive.

Read above and read the specs.


I have.

You haven't that is clear.

That sounds like a typical IMM phrase.

He does impress.

He might impress you, but you are in a minority of two, with him being
the other.






The critical information is missing, and the manufacturer
feels that the product is light in weight which it isn't.

I am not as easily impressed as you are.

If you can "specifically" point out any misgivings by ACV I would
appreciate it, as I maybe in the market for one.

I already have, several times,

You have not at all. You have pointed out absolutely nothing. All you
have done is go on about separate boilers in kitchens and cylinders.

I've made the shortcomings completely clear. The manufacturer avoids
these areas, understandably.

If you have managed to convince yourself, or allowed yourself to be
convinced by the marketing materials that this product meets your
needs, then you may not want to hear the negatives about it. That's
your prerogative, but it doesn't make the deficiencies go away.



and I'm not going to repeat the very
obvious limitations. If you want to choose to ignore the
limitations, then that's up to you.

You haven't given any at all, except say a separate boiler and cylinder
can go in kitchens. Any data you gave was assumed and utter wrong.

It isn't.

Take a look at the missing information and the issues of size and
weight.




The Scottish
Parliament has a number of them, so maybe you can out us all right. As
yet you have not. All you have done is assume. I am still open.

WHat the Scottish Parliament has to do with any of this I have no
idea.

They have a number of them. If they are inadequate I'm sure they would
like to know, as I would too.

Considering that the project was massively over budget and late, I
wouldn't treat anything or anybody involved in its construction as
being in any way reliable.






I haven't assumed anything. All I have done is to look at the
spec.sheets and brochures and have pointed out pieces that are missing
or glossed over.

Look at the installation manual. You have assumed lots, and concluded
incorrectly.

I haven't assumed anything, but simply pointed out the limitations
such as size and weight and highlighted what is missing.




The ACV for the price and its performance is matchless by other combis
and separate cylinder and boiler. To get a tank in tank cylinder,
controls and a 35 KW RR class boiler to deliver 380 litres in 10
minutes would cost far more than the ACV Heatmaster. Ever thought some
people might have looked into this? And have done for the past 7
years.


Probably, and I suspect are more discerning than you regarding
practicality and performance.

You are choosing best case numbers rather than reality.



--

..andy

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