BottleBob wrote:
"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote:

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 21:26:01 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

Seems to me, a major project should be started - something like the
moon race
or the Panama canal - more like it - to clean up and direct the flow
once and for all. I know the whole delta lives from the flow, but
a central channel that will drain off he fast snow melt from the
central part of the country as well as a storm that hits the port.

The Corps of Engineers seems to have dropped this ball big time. I
rather suspect (as is typical in AK and LA ...) state politics
entered and a baby
channel was put through the city. Should have been pressure
release valves that would pop on the sides (by nature or man) and
open flood gates that
skirt the city. Man made pumps are nice for drip and runoff. But
a storm
or a flood from rain on snow requires controls that are massive.
From the looks at the channel, I think it was a major major mistake
in Engineering or even a larger on in politics. It should not
continue.

Martin

The Corps Of Engineers and FEMA shouldn't be spending US Federal
money on a city that was sited in a stupid place, unless they fix the
underlying problems that make it a disaster magnet first.

If they insist on rebuilding New Orleans right where it stands, and
at exactly the same elevation, I would agree with the "No Federal
Bailouts - You know It's Going To Happen Again" policy, but we could
never get that through. If they tried that, you could hear the
wailing two states over.

Plan A:

The Federal and local governments need to sit down and look at The
Big Picture. They should require that if property owners want FEMA
and insurance coverage in the future, as they rebuild they bring in
fill and raise their houses and businesses at least above sea level,
if not a few feet more, and any non-raised buildings are going to pay
prohibitive (punitive) insurance premiums.

You can leave the streets, parks and open spaces a few feet lower,
they can act as the storm channels for when (not if) another
hurricane
or storm surge hits. And plan the main roads and highways as
elevated
along their whole length to provide an effective escape route.

This would require that the city, county, state and federal
governments totally rebuild their respective roads and highways, and
the utility districts rebuild the sewers, water and other lines along
and/or under them, but that is often quick and cheap when you do it
en
masse. Face it, the roads and utilities all need major repairs or a
full reconstruction right now - and you wanted a good excuse to
convert to all underground utilities while you're at it, didn't you?
The wind can't knock down a power pole that isn't there.

And this time don't route all the major fiber-optic lines coming
into town inside the Lake Ponchartrain Causeway bridges (after you
rebuild them) it doesn't help the emergency phone reliability...

Bring in a rail line, you'll need A Whole Lot of fill dirt and base
stone. And the 100-ton dump trucks and scrapers needed to move, place
and compact it quickly. Get some "Can Do" People (like Gunner) who
can start scrounging around at old strip mines for the heavy
equipment
they'll need, and/or get some of the manufacturers to donate a few.

If the buildings are salvageable (were above the flood) you move
them one lot over, raise and compact the soil, and move them back.
From the looks of it, a good 85% of the buildings are going to need
extensive repairs or complete replacement - if there's mold and rot
through the entire structure and it's leaning to one side, it's much
cheaper to tear it down and start fresh.

Plan B:

Or move the whole stupid city to solid ground, survey out a street
grid, and start over. It's been done before (they moved many
communities to make way for Hoover Dam and other reservoirs) just not
on anywhere near that scale. The majority of the existing city is
really only good for salvage value...

Yes, you can call in house movers - some buildings are solid enough
to be moved to the new location, dropped onto new foundations and
restored for not too much money. And they can deconstruct Bourbon
Street and reassemble it in the new location reusing as much old
material as they can salvage. It can be done to the point where you
can't tell - Proof: London Bridge is now in Arizona...

Summation:

And either way they go, a LOT of the work can be done by the
residents of the cities, ala WPA - there are a lot of disadvantaged
people, but I'll bet many can learn several new skills or trades in
the process with a little instruction and direction.

Besides the city reconstruction itself, there are hundreds of
thousands of cars, trucks, buses, semi trailers, major appliances,
industrial equipment, etc. that need to be collected together,
assessed, and either properly salvaged (returned to the owners if
possible) or the hazardous materials remediated and the equipment
scrapped out for parts.

And after it's all done it will truly be Their City, because the
residents rebuilt it with their own hands and hearts, with help from
the rest of the country.


--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700




After reading literally hundreds of posts on the New Orleans
situation
that have mostly been limited to essentially acrimonious finger
pointing
of one sort or another and not worth the time to respond to... here
are
two posts (the one by Pope Secola VI and the one by Bruce Bergman)
that
seem to be positive attempts at actually trying to provide solutions
to
the
problem of rebuilding New Orleans so a repeat of the current type of
disaster is minimized.
THESE are the sorts of constructive posts I would EXPECT from
intelligent people
used to solving problems in the machining/mechanical trades, as
opposed
to puerile whining about which political party's fault it is that the
disaster happened.
We've even got posters wishing people of different political
ideologies
were dead, Jeeze, are they just trolling or are they really
psychopathic?


The Japanese built "Kansai International Airport" on a man-made
island
5 kilometers out to sea.

http://www.takenaka.co.jp/takenaka_e...ix/kiindex.htm

I'm sure we could use similar, or even improved, construction
methods
to rebuild New Orleans above sea level.

Jeez Bob;
Don't confuse these poor folks with the voice of reason!
Politics-psychopathic - gee - don't those two words go together with a
poetic nicety?

I'm a politician, so are you.
Do we disagree?
Yes indeed.
Ain't it fun
Yes indeed.
Doesn't matter who gets harmed.
Doesn't matter what is lost.
Doesn't matter who is dead.
Only matters - where they red?
Doesn't matter - where they black?
Only matters - were they we?