On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 03:49:32 GMT, Strabo
wrote:

In OT - A test for Gunner & Stu & crew on Wed, 31 Aug 2005
12:33:11 -0700, by Hawke, we read:

Morality is derived from religion, but can exist separate from it.

No, that's not quite right. Morality existed before the coming of any
organized religion. It is an intrinsic trait in man so it always existed
apart from religion. Religions have just appropriated it to increase their
power and control the masses.

Hawke

As I agree with natural law I agree with you that morality is
intrinsic. Every man knows the essentials of right and wrong
even if never exposed to a religion. Man's moral nature
occurred BEFORE religion and not as a result of it.

Absolute rubbish.
"Morality" is a social peer-pressure thing and
can vary quite widely.
It's derived, mostly, from the religion context ...
religions dictate what local "morality" is. And,
depending on your class can vary as well.

Example: If you are a ruler like the shrubbie
you can indeed lie & murder.

It is this intrinsic awareness that prompted Jefferson to say,

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are
created equal..."

Rubbish. It SOUNDED good & sold.

Having said that, while religion is unabashedly used to control
behavior, in its simplest form it IS the repository of the values
of the society which invented the religion. Therefore, one can
learn morality from religion.

snort

Think of all the rights those preachers want to remove ....
and recall how things used to be with the full support
of various preachers .... and will be again if they are
allowed the power again.
Beware bush & his voices .... perhaps burning is involved?

http://whitehouse.org/dof/index.asp
http://whitehouse.org/initiatives/index.asp
http://whitehouse.org/policy/commandments.asp
--
Cliff