User Example wrote:
The other thing is - you seem to go far beyond just pointing out that
contractors are making a living doing what they do (living, yes, means colleges
for their kids and Expeditions should they choose). You seem to resent them for
it. To me, it's a duh - OF COURSE they're putting their kids through college
and having their friends over for a few drinks with the money I pay them. My
firm has been doing the same for me for 28 years! Jees.

I've noticed that there is a direct correlation between a poster that
cuts out the identitifying information of the post that they're
responding to and an ego problem. It's also discourteous.

No, what I resent is when they charge 3 or 4 times what it costs to
actually do the job, and that is including paying the labor and the
materials. That's just downright ridiculous. I'm happy to pay them for
their time and the materials they use. But at the rate a lot of them
charge, you are paying a day or two of work to people who don't even go
out to your job site. That just doesn't seem right to me.

resent, ridiculous, doesn't seem right...
You're on a mission, aren't you? To fight the wrongs of the world.
Unfortunately one of the wrongs you're fighting is a pretty standard
state of affairs. Google keystoning and pricing. For smaller projects
tripling the direct construction cost is standard operating procedure.
If a contractor doesn't do that, they're cutting corners somewhere and
won't be in business for very long. You don't have to like it. You
don't even have to participate.

Those vegetables and fruit you have on the table are grown in your
garden because their free, right? A sewing machine is really cheap.
You must sew your own clothes. Big savings right there. Obviously you
draw the line somewhere...unless you're living in a shack in Montana
and writing diatribes against the unfairness of the world.

I don't mind paying a high price for some work if it is done to
perfection but so far just about all the work I have hired out has been
full of mistakes or ugly work. For instance, I had my chimney resided
because it is too high for me to do. Well, they left Tyvec hanging out
from under the siding boards... the painters just painted over the
Tyvec. The caulk had all kinds of gaps in it. And I paid a lot for the
job because I expected they would do good work.

Done to perfection? What is this, a steak? You may feel you're paying
for perfection, but you obviously aren't. "I expected they would do
good work" is a rallying cry for the clueless. Your "expectations"
don't matter. You need a written contract with everything spelled out.
You also obviously don't know how to vet and hire a contractor. Your
inability is the cause of your dissatisfaction.

The people you would want to hire probably wouldn't want to work for
you. I can feel the mistrust and unrealistic expectations coming off
of you in waves. I can only imagine what a contractor would feel
talking to you face to face.

Until the quality of work goes up I will complain about it.

Until you learn a new skill or two (people skills and how to deal with
contractors) you will continue to complain. It is your right to
complain. Just don't expect everyone to agree with your way of doing
things.

If I seem hard on you it's because you are totally out of line with
your viewpoint...let me correct that - you're totally out of line with
trying to foist your viewpoint on others. In your own words you berate
people who don't do things themselves. What's that to you? If you had
said that you feel sorry for people who don't do things for themselves
because they won't know the satisfaction of fixing something, that
would be one thing. Instead you write things like, "Well, you don't
need a plumber to replace a faucet unless you are an idiot. You can
take the $100 you saved an(d) go out to dinner and a movie and
whatever. That's just being smart."

That's your definition of being smart. My brother-in-law picks up the
phone for everything. His best tool is one of those little toy hammers
that has the screwdriver set nested in the handle. Of course he's not
in your situation. He's a real estate developer in NYC. He also knows
how to talk to people and knows how to hire a contractor. I don't see
anything wrong with the choices he's making for himself.

In another post you mentioned you're a software engineer and worked in
the nuclear industry. Both are highly technical and there's a definite
way to do things. Anything else is _wrong_. Garbage in, garbage out,
right? You're input in this instance is garbage in. You're outcome
will not change until you correct your input.

R