Dan C wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 18:18:55 -0700, wrote:

Almost. Close enough for the sake of this conversation. But.... What do
you think happens if the engines shut down before the shuttle has reached
a high enough altitude to break free of gravity and remain in space? The
problem which occurred last week was that the sensor indicated the tank
was empty (when it really wasn't), and therefore would have shut down the
engines. Guess what happens next...

Yes, I am fully aware that the function of these sensors is important.
Good thing three out of four work. We just wouldn't have redundancy
for a mission while they fix it.

With a sensor of this magnitude, you don't go on a mission without
redundancy. It's really that simple.

That is a VERY over-simplified view of things. The reality of it is that
you DO NOT launch if there are things which you KNOW are problems. That
way if things go wrong it is only because of things you did not know about
beforehand. The real name of this process is: "Operational Risk
Management" (ORM). It's how things are done.

The real name of this process is "Cover Your Ass (CYA)". A
spineless CYA culture is incapable of simultaneously being a Can-Do
culture that makes things happen. Risks need to be taken or progress
slows to a halt. People need to start getting mad about the lack of
America's progress in space instead of the shuttle disasters.

There is some truth to that, but there is more to it. In this day and
age, politics and public opinion play more of a part than they should (or
used to). Imagine the public outcry if another Colombia happened with
this mission. Public outcry means Congress doesn't fund next year.
That's reality.

That's spineless Americans. NASA also does an atrocious job of
communicating that the goal isn't to have the least failures but
instead to have the most success. I have NEVER heard anyone from NASA
or a congressman or the president make remarks to that effect. They
also do a poor job of managing expectations. They need to come out and
say they expect things to blow up from time to time and that doesn't
indicate a problem with the way NASA is doing business. They should
stop apologizing when something does blow up. I don't apologize to a
tenant when a roof develops a leak. I fix it and move on.


Wrong again. China is not currently anywhere near our level. The real
point here is that there is not really a "space race" any more. What are
they going to do, go to the moon?

You are right. We are not in a space race. We are just sitting there
and China is rapidly advancing. China IS going to go to the moon.

Assuming that is true (and I don't know that it is), how does it hurt us
if they go to the moon? We've already been there.

It is a matter of long term national security. Many Americans alive
today have never been in a major war (WWII, etc). They simply don't
see how it could happen, but it could. Countries fight with each
other. This has been going on for a long time and I don't see an end
in sight. "Lately" the country with some combination of the most
advanced technology and the biggest military always wins. China has a
significantly larger population than us. We need to stay far ahead of
them technologically. If we are always ahead, we are always safe. No
one knows who will be fighting who in the future. Saddam Hussein was
once a good guy, now he is a bad guy. Why do Americans believe we
could not be at war with China 30 years from now? I am not forecasting
a war with China in 30 years any more than I could forecast the
weather, but I am quite certain it will one day rain again.


again. The shuttle should have been replaced after 10 years with a
better vehicle and then the vehicle after that should have been
replaced by now. We should have long ago colonized the moon and
perhaps Mars. We should have completed the superconducting
supercollider. The list goes on and on. I am happy to see bush
setting some meager goals in the distant future but the fact is we have
been sitting on our hands. We are just sitting here waiting to be
passed. Unless we change our attitude it will happen.

Most of this I agree with. I also would have liked to see us do much more
with the space program over the last 30 years. What you are missing here
is that the reason it hasn't happened is not the fault of NASA. It is the
fault of a Congress that won't fund things, which is a result of the
general public not giving a damn about space exploration. The average
American today is more interested in social programs, tree hugging, and
tax evasion. That is where the real fault is, right there. The American
public. If you want things to change, you must begin there.

I agree that the American public is the root problem. I think the
generation that could have changed who the American public is missed
the boat. I don't see a way out. Welfare recipients are vastly out
birthing two income families. Our only hope is that something drastic
will come along and rock the boat and we'll luck into a better
situation. Perhaps illegal immigrants from Mexico will change the
voter population and make productive change but based upon the
corruption Mexicans vote for in Mexico I don't think so.


Good. I run Fedora or Red Hat Enterprise Linux on all of my systems.
(Except I have a Mac and a Windows 2000 system specifically for testing
setup in VMWare) I do some software development from time to time. What
is your profession?

Hmmm.... so why do you post from Google Groups? Get a real newsreader.
As for me, I'm an electronics engineer, closely associated with the
federal government...

What newsreader should I use? I am glad at least a tiny fraction of my
tax dollars go to EE's to do something (defense contractor?).


--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951