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meirman
 
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In alt.home.repair on 21 Jul 2005 09:22:34 -0700
posted:

Posted and mailed. Reply by post. By mail if I don't reply and it's
specifically for me.

someone mentioned to me that in teh newer home people dont use sump
pumps but some other type of mechanism to get water out of the
basement well, and appearantly it doesnt require electricity

First i wanted to know what type of mechanism this is, and if i can
install it myself.

Also if i was to have it installed what does it typically cost for a
plumber do it?

im trying to find some sure fire method to prevent floods as i want to
finish my basement and make it into the ULTIMATE game room. and i
cannot afford to have a single flood!

thanks in advance for your help.


A failing sump pump is not necessarily your biggest risk.

Although I woudn't flood if I were on a hill, and although my basement
flooded (an eighth inch deep) about 3 times when the rain made the
stream rise and the stream flooded the sewers and that backed up
through the basement sink, in fact, I face no danger it seems from the
sump pump not working.

Despite the fact that the stream has risen to two feet from my fence,
to a place which is less than 30 feet from my basement and probably 4
feet above my basement floor, and despite the fact that water just
pours into the sump though both pipes that surround the base of the
foundation, from both directions, and my sump pump often runs a lot, I
think that is only to keep the water level in the sump at 18 inches
below the basement floor instead of 6 inches below the basement floor.
When I raised the float level so that it started to pump at 10 inches
below the basement floor instead of 12 inches below, the amount of
pumping time dropped by about 80 percent. Now, light rains never cause
the pump to go on. If I went up another inch it would drop another 10
or 15 percent, and I think if I went up to 5 inches below the floor it
would never run at all. Water would never get higher than that.

The fact that the pump runs a lot does not mean that if you turned off
the pump the basement would flood. You have to check. And you have
to do so when all the conditions are right for flooding to occur.
Start when one condition is right, when it's raining heavily.

If you already own the house, I would go down there during the
heaviest storms, and also the longest periods of rain, and when the
soil outside the house is the most drenched, and watch what happens
when you loosen the collar, and let the float rise all the way up
without turning on the pump. See how close to the floor it gets. Of
course before you do this, mark the previous collar location with an
indelible marker, or a crayon that will last until you put it back.
AND KNOW HOW to turn the pump on with your fingers. There is a 1 or 2
inch plastic arm which the collar hits that turns the pump on. Let it
cycle a couple times to see how it works. And keep a screwdriver or
allen wrench handy to retighten the collar if you have to leave
suddenly, the phone rings. And don't just tighten it, but watch a
couple cycles to make sure it's still working.

I would still never get rid of the sump pump, and I replaced it when
it rusted. And it once rained here 38 days out of 40. Just short of
Biblical. I had just moved here and I didn't think to do any testing
during that period. Maybe it would have flooded the sump.



My problem, flooding through the basement sink, is not that common
afaik, but it would happen because of the stream every 3 or 4 years if
I didn't plug the sink with a rubber cork, held down by a piece of
wood that is jambed under the shelf I built above the washer-dryer.
Even then, once it lifted up the shelf even though there was a lot of
stuff on it. I hadn't screwed the shelf to the wall bracket it rested
on. Even now, there is the chance the sink will fall off the wall the
next time water pressure is pushing up on the cork. Hmmm. I'm not
sure if that would matter??????, but I have to put legs under the sink
anyhow, for when it falls off the wall from the weight of the water.

But the sink also backed up when a grease log clogged the local sewer
for half of my n'hood of 100 townhouses. Caused apparently by people
washing greasy dishes in the sink or dishwasher. Apparently no one's
fault. Apparently no one's drains drained, but it was the people at
the bottom of the hill, yet up sewer from the clog, whose sinks backed
up. Because my sink was stopped, I only got a teeny bit when the
shelf was lifted up.



But there are more ways to flood, all of which have affected me.

Forgetting that the basement sink has a stopper in it, with a piece of
wood jambed against the shelf, and then doing the laundry. I've only
done that once.

Ways to avoid flooding, all of which I should have done before they
got me, although I was home each time and caught them quickly:

Turn off the water lines to your washing machine whenever you unload
the washer, or use steel covered hoses, or maybe even both. I was
probably sleeping when this one started, or I had just run the
bathroom sink or toilet. (The hoses took up the shock when the water
was turned off, by a faucet or a toilet valve. But taking up the
slack is what made one burst. This happens all the time to one house
or another.) Lucky I heard the water running in the basement.

Don't use vinyl tubing to your humidifier or refrigerator ice maker
(or anything else if there are other things). Use copper, and don't
fold it when you install it.

Put your water heater in a plastic tray, with the drain routed to
sump. If you have no tray, note the water when it first leaks on the
floor. More is coming, suddenly. (I didnt' notice because I thought
the basement was still wet from the previous leak from one of the
other causes.)

Cut holes in the lip of the sump. My plastic lip is at least 3/8 inch
high, and though it's pretty, afaict there is no need for any lip
above the cement. It keeps water on the floor from draining into the
sump. The whole lip need not be cut away. Pour water on the floor
and see where it first reaches the lip, and that is where to drill or
cut. Holes that are too small won't actually let water through.
Maybe use a saw or a knife or a hot knife to cut out a 3 inch piece.


In my location, I can't put a toilet in the basement, because there is
no way to plug it, even though the rough-in is there.

I've thought about putting a tray underneathe the sink, with a pipe to
the sump, or cutting a channel in the basement floor. But my basement
is crowded and they're on opposite sides of the room. If I were
building a house, I would consider putting them next to each other
with the floor sloped to


Meirman
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