Leif:

I agree with your sentiments on most items, and we can all learn something from
what works or doesn't work for someone else. It is important for people to
realize that the primary reason I use LDD is to make sanding easier, not to keep
the cracking and checking down. With Norfolk Pine, anyway, there isn't as much
problem with cracking as with other woods. In addition, even with some
problematic woods, different techniques will allow making a bowl without losing
it to shrinkage cracks. (For example, an end grain bowl of Macadamia Nut wood
is a beautiful thing, but it is a rare day you get one done without it splitting
from the edge to the center. On the other hand, wood from the same stump,
turned side grain can make a really nice natural edge bowl without nary a
problem...)

I haven't gone to the trouble of using a hydrometer to check the specific
gravity of the LDD vat, but do add more (and/or water) as it "feels right" for
my application. If I had the time, I'd do a more scientific study of several
woods that are commonly available here to see if they responded to higher
concentrations of LDD to water, but as I don't turn them as often, I just
haven't taken the time. Perhaps when I get my new workshop built, I'll
(temporarily, at least) have enough space to do something like that.

As you have indicated, we each need to determine what works for us, and that
also means experimentation. Without that, we wouldn't even be using LDD in any
concentration, or for any reasons except trying to get the dirt off our hands.
I comment everyone for wanting to learn more about what others do, and think
healthy discussions like these help us all. I don't think I'll be doing any
"high concentration" LDD for the near future at least, or primarily for crack
abatement, but that could change in an instant if a need arose.

We all need to do what makes sense for us. Here in Hawaii, there are several
people that are playing with or using versions of the LDD process (I think Ron
Kent is on Oahu. I'm on Hawaii, the big island). Quite a few on this island
are using a variation of modified Danish oil for Norfolk Pine (and some other
woods), and the incredible amount of sharing going on here has helped us all. I
know I wouldn't be using the process if it hadn't been shared by someone else
first.

Thanks you for carrying the LDD cross, so to speak, so others can also learn
what works for you, and for listening to what others have said. It only helps
us all in the end.

Thanks
-_Rick

Leif Thorvaldson wrote:

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 04:00:04 GMT, Rick Frazier
wrote:

Mac:

I see Leif has answered, but my personal experience is somewhat
different.... I'll
reply in-line below:

mac davis wrote:


Was my procedure roughly correct:
Rough turned very green, wet bowls and soaked them in 50/50 LDD over
night....

I rough turn as wet as possible, depending upon the wood. For clear wood,
right
away after cutting, if not, let it spalt some, then cut it (the water
percentage
will usually be a little lower after spalting). Either way, there is water
flying
around during the early part of turning, at least. I don't use LDD until
I'm done
with the rough turning. If I need a break (hours or days) I just cover
the bowl
blank with a plastic bag, sealing it up with spring clamps. I use
faceplates for
rough turning, then turn a foot for a chuck for my sanding process. Yep,
the
faceplates do rust a bit if I wait too long to get back to them, but not
enough to
be a problem... I've never lost a bowl because I stopped turning part way
through,
though sometimes, the spalting has changed (continued) while the blank was
bagged...

thanks, Rick.. my process is pretty much the same, except that I usually
get
lazy and use the chuck screw instead of the face plate...
All this wood is fresh cut and VERY wet... After turning a bowl, my arms,
shirt
and a lot of the lathe space are soaked.. lol

I use a mix of 4 parts water to one part LDD, and have about 30 gallons of
solution
in a big plastic barrel (vat). To this, I add a half gallon of isopropyl
(rubbing)
alcohol. The alcohol mostly keeps things from growing in the LDD vat.
Some other
fellows think it may help the penetration, but I haven't run definitive
tests yet
to really find out.

that's really good to know, as so far I've stuck to the 50/50 mixture... 3
or 4
parts to one would make it easier to deal with...

The rough turned wood goes in the LDD vat for a few days to a week or so,
depending
upon how much I'm turning. If I'm turning a lot, then I push the oldest
piece out
in about three or four days. If I'm turning less, I'll let them soak for
a week
(or until I remember they are in the vat).

After removal from the LDD vat, I put them on a rack and let them dry.
Mostly
"upside down" so they drain. After a few days, I'll flip them upright and
leave
them that way until Dry... This means anywhere from a few weeks to months,
depending upon how thick the rough turning was. If there is any
significant
moisture in the rough turned bowl, I wait before sanding.


Put them on a drying rack, flipping them occasionally, until dry to the
touch..
(Ron's method?)

Mounted on lathe and finish turned and sanded them..

Once they've dried, I sand. If I didn't do such a great job with the
roughing, I
tend to drag out the "50 grit gouge" (I can go down to 24 grit in an
emergency) to
finish shaping and such before proceeding with sanding. (I've taken a
5/8" thick
bowl down to 1/8" in little time, and don't have to worry about chatter or
blowing
it up with a catch in the "final shaping" phase. Sanding is done with the
bowl
mounted in a chuck and using power sanders (Sioux/Milwaukee angle drills
and PS or
Hook and Loop paper on appropriate pads.) All sanding is done dry. The
residual
LDD makes for easy sanding, the paper doesn't have any build up, but you
have to
wear a mask because you can get some really fine dust in the air (and it
does tend
to taste like soap, DAMHIKT). I typically sand to 600 grit, alternating
the spin
direction of the lathe with each grit change along the way. On that
really special
object I might go to 1200/1500, but it's a rare day I do something like
that.

I'd love the luxury of reversing the lathe, but don't have that option...
I end
up hand sanding some stuff because the grain and bowl rotation don't match
well.. *sigh*

Wet sanded 1st one with mineral oil... didn't seem to pick up the luster
that
this process usually does..

Once sanded, the bowl is cut off of the chuck, the bottom finish sanded,
then it
goes into the "soup" which is a modified vat of danish oil until the bowl
saturates. (about 20 gallons of it) At first, the bowl floats, and needs
to be
held down, but after awhile, it no longer floats. The process can vary
from a
week to two or more, depending upon thickness before the object saturates.
Here's
where you can really tell if it had any residual moisture, because you can
see the
difference. After saturation, a dip and dry, buff and repeat process
builds up a
surface film that helps protect the resultant object. A coat of wax and
the bowl
is off to a gallery.


Stained and waxed the other 2, they seemed to be very nice, but all
three still
felt slightly heavier than they would/wood have if dried "naturally...
maybe
because it was soft wood???

If it's heavier, it's still probably wet, and no matter what finish you
put on it,
it will eventually look bad... (once the water eventually gets out it will
make the
finish dull, at the very least).

ok... that's a big question... should the bowl dry longer than I've been
doing?
I think that I've misunderstood the process, as your method, drying them
for
weeks.... makes sense as long as they don't crack..

I was thinking that once they came out of the LDD, they had to be finish
turned
and sealed ASAP..

Rick has some interesting techniques, some of which are contrary to my
experience; however, the old adage applies. Whatever works, works! One
note about leaving the stuff to dry: I found it too risky and that coupled
with my natural impatience to finish a project, wanted to get it done and
not have a bunch of things sitting around drying. After all, that is what
lead to my search and finding out about LDD from Ron Kent. Rick's drying
method may well fit in more with a professional/production turner. I tend
to work at one thing at a time.

The ratio of LDD, seems problematic. If Rick's ratio works for him, great.
The thing that I hang my hat on is that I have the same LDD in a "vat" that
I started with, and with the addition of a quart or two of LDD once a year,
really doesn't cost any more except for the initial investment ($15.00???).
Perhaps more has to be added when you are processing more wood, as the water
from the wood will thin the solution. I kept a check on it with a
hydrometer for about a year and found out that adding a quart or so of LDD
kept the Specific Gravity of the 50/50 solution at the recommended ratio.

In any event, I am gratified to hear about the experience of turners with
LDD. I don't know how many emails of guidance and copies of the "Treatise"
I have sent out due to computer problems, but I hadn't gotten many comments
back on the efficacy of the process for others. Thanks guys, for your
input! May the Spirit of LDD Protect you from cracks and warps! *G*

Leif