"William" wrote in message
news:3ovae.10379$c24.8408@attbi_s72...

"DL" wrote in message
news:ZJ8ae.4302$lz1.3581@lakeread01...

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
m...
In article Zm6ae.3927$lz1.2661@lakeread01, "DL"
wrote:

Nor am I, and this is why I am asking for some opinions / guidance and
will
have the work I am doing inspected by the county inspector as well as a
certified electrician that will be upgrading the main service entrance
from
200amps to 400amps needed for the entire space being finished much
beyone
my
workshop area.

Ummmm.... maybe you ought to ask that certified electrician to do a
load
calculation first. What on earth do you want with 400A service? 200A
should be
plenty.


I have spoken with a certified electrician, the electric company, and the
county inspector on upgrading my main service to 400amps from 200amps and
all agree that it should be done. The service upgrade is for the entire
5000+ square foot home. The current 200amp service panel is completely
maxed out. I am in the process of finishing a 1500 square foot basement
of
which around 500 square feet are dedicated to the workshop. I have a
full
bath and media and other rooms, connections to the garage that need power
circuits which justify the additional service upgrade. Having lived in
homes that are under wired, the cost difference to get what will meet my
needs now and in the future is well worth the minimal increase in cost
for
the heavier wire, breakers, and panels.

For the workshop specifically I am installing a subpanel with a 100amp
circuit from the main panel to cover my needs in the workshop. Given I
have
a rotary phase converter that requires a 70-80amp breaker alone, along
with
the other 30 and 50amp circuits I will be running, I don't think this is
too
outrageous. To me, it is a lot cheaper to go on the high side now than
to
have to redo wiring later once the walls are closed in.


So I guess that the electric co is going to upgrade the feed to supply the
400 amps?? and install you your very own 100kva transformer?? ( not
likely:-) ( guess that they could install a 75kva can as it will put out
360
amps and they allow about 125% overload on their transformers for a short
time) So unless you get them to install at least a 75 kva transformer, you
as the other posters have pointed out you are NOT going to be able to draw
400 amps from the feed. They will also have to increase the wires size
for
your service drop from the transformer to your home.

William....

Well, I am mainly going by what the power company and certified electrician
told me to do. Most of the homes in the area in the 5000+ square feet range
are wired with 400amp service entrances as I am told. I will need a new
meter head (which the electric company will supply and install) and the
copper service entrance wires to the second 200amp main panel as well as the
conduit to get it inside and grounding.

Our house was a spec house and the builder decided to cut back on certain
things. They installed both boards for the 2 - 200amp service panels homes
of this size generally install, but only installed one 200amp service panel,
used all of the breakers except one in the main panel they installed. Not
sufficient breaker connections for me to finish out basement to say the
least. So to finish what the builder didn't do in the first place, I am
taking the home to 400amps of service so that boxes are similar in size and
will look proper when we go to sell the home in the future. Once installed,
I will only pay for the electric I use whether or not it is a 200, 400, or
for that matter a 1000amp (if there is such a thing) service.

Whether or not they already have or will install a separate 100kva system to
ensure I can actually draw the full 400amps is yet to be seen. (Thanks for
the heads up. I will be sure to ask the power company about it) I fully
believe that I will never come close to drawing the full 400amps, but given
the amount of electronics, appliances, and power tools, it's not worth the
aggrivation and safety issues of circuits poping when I overload a 200amp
service. Given that the first panel has over 800amps of breakers at this
point, I don't think that it is unreasonable to the service upgraded. They
are not going to take me to 250, my only option was to go to the 400amp
service which I am more that fine with.

I guess what puzzles me with all the questions I have been getting about
what I am planning to do will cost more or it is not necessary. I would
understand it if I was going to do something that potentially dangerous, but
to the contrary, I am installing what I believe (and people have agreed) is
a safe (will have inspected to ensure it is) and flexible electrical system
that will meet my needs now and in the future. Having all of my 240v
connections wired with a minimum of 10 gauge wire might be more than is
needed for a 15 or 20amp piece of equipment, but it will handle the load
fine. If you only use a maximum of 100amps in your home, do you down grade
the service entrance from 200amps to 100amps, I think not.

Having put additions on homes before, and gone through the sale process, I
want to make sure that things are done right for safety first, but then I
also want to take into account how it will affect the sale of the home. The
cost difference between a 125amp load center and the upgrade to the second
200amp panel as well as the wiring, receptacles and plugs just don't add up
to that much, especially from a safety factor.

David


Just for reference, my shop contains the following:
- table saw, dust collector, shaper, lathe, and air compressor (all
240V)
- band saw, radial arm saw, belt/disc sander, spindle sander, drill
press,
mortiser, jointer, planer, air filter, and an assortment of portable
tools
(all 120V)

SWMBO and my kids also enjoy woodworking, and it's not uncommon to have
two of
us in the shop at once, with two different machines *plus* the dust
collector
and air filter in operation simultaneously.

And the whole thing (except lights) is fed from a subpanel on a 60A
feed.
That
subpanel *also* feeds the washer, [gas] dryer, and electric stove
(240V).


[snip]

I guess I am confused with your reference to a pigtail. In my
understanding, a pigtail is used inside the junction / receptacle box
to
connect multiple wires to a single terminal connection. Are you
referring
to the plug ends I spoke about? If not, did you make short "pigtail"
connection that would change the plug configuration of your equipment
plug
to the configuration of the receptacle so that you didn't need to cut
and
rewire the plug ends of the equipment power cords?

He's talking about a short extension cord, with the plug end matching
the
receptacle in the wall, and the receptacl end matching the plug on the
equipment. This is, of course, an even *greater* unnecessary
expenditure
of
money and effort than the plug replacement that you propose, and
carries
exactly the same risks if the plug-and-receptacle configurations of the
pigtails are not matched correctly to the tools and the circuits. As
long
as
the configurations do not enable plugging a 30A tool into a 20A
circuit,
for
example, it's OK, but you *must* make sure of that.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his
butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?