Gunner wrote in
:

On 7 Apr 2005 14:25:42 -0700, wrote:

Were looking at one on ebay
Hardinge Automatic Screw Machine ASM5C 203
Item number: 7505934111
Is there anyone who can tell us its capability? Is this machine fully
automatic? We were all wondering here what all the buttons were for.
What we are wanting it for is making small quantities(2-300) of various
small not too critical parts. Tolrances are usually + or - .005. We do
alot of small screws 8-32,10-32 with head as big as .500 with a length
of the screw dia close to 2 in. We are now using a B+S and shaving
these screws down.

A good post by Gunner. I set up a ton of jobs on these when I was a lot
younger, so I'll add a bit and take issue here and there. The machine
will be slower than a Brownie though. but quicker to set up. You may want
to look for a used CNC Swiss, there are plenty of older clapped out
machines that are still good enough to do what you want. Check he
http://inv.automatics.com/q/webinv/000682=list,,0A8175
Caveat Emptor, go see it and make sure it runs. I'm familiar with some of
the machines he has so feel free to send an e-mail. The addy is good as
it is.



The Asm is a fully automatic, microswitch programable automatic turret
lathe with two direction cross slide. Its a very capable machine. 5c.
6 positions on the turret. Hydraulicly operated. In good condition,
its capable of .0005 +/-.

This machine when new would do much better than a thou total. I've done
+/- .0002" jobs on it. Needs to warm up for at least two hours before it
stops growing. We had auto timers on ours. The cycle start push button
has a cage around it with cross holes. You can unscrew it some put a pin
through the hole and screw it back down, the pin will hold the push
button in. The timer will start the machine and the start button will get
it cycling.


Its an old machine, but they can run for days turning out parts.

The problem is...setup time for 2 parts will eat your lunch. 500 is
almost not worth setting it up, unless you are getting serious money
for them.

I disagree some. We used ours for quantities between 25-2000. Most jobs
were 100-150 parts. It was rare that it would take more than two hours to
set up a job. We ran fairly complex parts in 303 St. St. and some brass.
Usually most every station had a tool mounted. But, there are tricks,
skills, and tools required to be able to pull this off. Here's a for
instance: The cross slide stops have a screw adjustment to get to size.
Rather than just turn the screw some and measure, then turn it again. I
would use a feeler gage that was equal to the depth of cut. I would run
the slide up against the feeler, then turn the screw until the tool
touched the bar. Tighten her up and you're done. If I needed to make a
fine adjustment use a mag base and an indicator. You can waste a lot of
time guessing. Hardinge used to sell a set-up bar for these to line up
the floating drill holders to the spindle. Use a planer gage to set tool
center height on the cross slide. There are dozens of other tricks to get
you there. These machines were originally designed for lower volume jobs.
Anything over 1,000 - 2,000 pcs. went on a Brownie.



The bank of "switches" down at the lower right, are actually hydraulic
trim valves for the turret, cross slide, automatic cutoff and so
forth.. They adjust position and pressure. Also contain lamps to show
which turret position is in operation

Actually they adjust the feed rate. There are "pots" as well to adjust
dwell.


The console at high right contains machine on, cycle start, collet
open/close, turret index, cross slide in/out, spindle start, coolant,
etc etc

Yup. The collet closer is by the headstock though.


The verticle thingy on top of the head stock, is the automatic cutoff
tool slide.

A must have. But is there a Lipe bar feed included with this? You cant
feed bar without a bar feed that pushes. It's not possible to "bar pull"
with this machine.


The square box directly behind the turret is the programmer. A bank of
microswitchs with a roller that is coupled to the turret and clips are
used to set the program.

The biggest killer to using one of these, is its NOT a regular lathe.
No provisions for manual operation, and after 30 yrs, the
microswitches start to fail. They can be fixed, no problem, Hardinge
stocks parts for them as well as its bigger brother, the AHC. and its
kin the little brother the DSMA.

No contouring, no single point threading. So you are looking at form
tools, knee tools, recess tools, and die heads.


I service these. They can be a stone bitch to figure out what is going
wrong, and where, particularly if you have intermittend microswitches.

Yup. Plus IIRC its an air over oil hydraulic system. Ick.


My favorite thing to do with one that has gone problematic, is to
strip all the **** off it, and retrofit it with an OmniTurn cnc
package.

www.omniturn.com

The big advantage here is that you get a two axis gang tool table. Very
flexible and accurate. Hardinge always made a good spindle so you'll end
up with a decent machine.


Then it becomes a new, far more capable machine. A damned good one
too. But it will set you back about $22,000 give or take. on your
iron.

Id be terribly surprised if this machine goes for more than $500.
Particularly in Kansas, which is not a hot bed of screwmachine shops.

I'll be surprised if anyone bids on it. If I had the room and needed a
hobby....


I have a number of these here in So. Cal. And when they run, they run
parts very very well. But they are old, tired and slow to setup, and
frankly nearly too slow for a production shop. Like old B&S screw
machines, they are great to set up for a single recurring part, and
then crank out parts when you get the order. They are barfeed
machines.

Typically, and here is an example. MK Products, the people who make
the Cobramatic line of wire feed welders..they have a number of these
doing nothing but turning out contact tips for mig welders. One
machine per tip type.

They have others that Ive retrofited to Omniturns, that crank out the
gas parts, fittings etc etc. They can be set up in 10 minutes or less
for the next part run.

For long screws like that..few machines will give you good threads on
a 2" screw using normal single point or thread laydown tooling,
particularly a thread that small. It will likely have to be turned
one at a time and then either threaded with a die head, or thread
rolled on another machine. They can be pretty well rough blanked on
the ASM or other machines. I probably could single point them on an
Omniturn, but set up would need to be careful and speeds and feeds (
I&K values) chosen carefully. A die head is much simpler and faster
for a long screw like this.

The B&S is in many ways, similar to the ASM, so..shrug..you may not be
gaining anything.

Frankly...Ive seen these tossed into the dumpster because they are
old, slow and tired. Average price is about $800-1500 local sale.
Shipping is a killer. If its only worth a grand, and it costs $800 to
ship it...shrug Its between 2000-2700 lbs IRRC.

I remember when you couldn't find one of these used, and if you did it
would sell for a small fortune. I like the automatic chuckers better
(box cycles and single ponit threading) but the ASM is faster.


If you decide to go for it, and it doesnt come with manuals, I can
probably get you a full set of operator, setup and most
importantly..maintainance manuals.

Gunner


.
Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"



--

Dan