On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 23:33:52 GMT, mike wrote:
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:36:22 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:
I find the best price/performance is Ryobi and Kress (Wickes)
I can understand that......
But, Andy, Kress have previously rebadged their products for
Porter-Cable and Mafell (two names that should surely give any
self-respecting label-whore a boner).
Yes I'm aware of that.
I hadn't got into the *detail* of what different manufacturers do
because the thread was initially about drills, although I had touched
on it a couple of times.
I don't feel, and I don't think that I have ever said that *all* tools
from a particular manufacturer or brand are automatically good or for
another that they are automatically bad.
To expand this a little:
- When I've looked at cordless drills, as I have on numerous
occasions, Makita has always come out at or near the top in terms of
mechanics, battery behaviour, motor control, balance of tool, recharge
behaviour etc. A possible, ahead of it is Panasonic who have
excellent battery technology. However, availability is not quite as
ubiquitous.
- I looked at sliding mitre saws. Choices were Makita LS1013, deWalt
708 and a Bosch, with Elektra Beckum as a possible. After a lot of
checking and deliberation, the Makita was the choice.
- Power screwdriver. I have a small DeWalt one. It's light and
convenient and works very well.
- 12.7mm router. I have a DeWalt 625. This is recognised as being
one of the best designs on the market, originating from Elu. There
are versions of it sold by Trend and CMT. It's an excellent and
solid router.
- Laminate trimmer. Another DeWalt. I bought a 110v one in the U.S.
because it was half the price of the UK. It's pretty good and has a
number of angles and accessories which is what I need.
- Biscuit jointer. I originally bought a DeWalt 682. It was a
disaster. A design fault means that the fence is at 87 degrees when
the indicator shows 90 and it can't be corrected. It took me some
time to discover this because I used it less early on than more
recently. It went back to Axminster tools, 18 months after purchase
and they happily refunded it with very few questions asked. That's
what I call proper service.
In the meantime, I looked at other brands and concluded that Lamello
would be the right choice. First of all, they were the originators of
biscuit joinery and secondly specialise in this area. I bought a
Lamello joiner. It wouldn't surprise you to know that it was from
Axminster tools. Actually their price was £15 higher than a
competitor. I mentioned this, and it was adjusted. However, given
the level of service over the other tool, I wouldn't have pushed the
point.
- Pneumatic nailers. I have bought only two brands - Porter Cable
and Senco. However, I wouldn't dream of buying a Porter Cable
sander. They are junk.
- I have Metabo sanders. Why? because they are among the best on the
market. I can use my 450 all day and not have vibrating fingers
syndrome. Try that with a Black and Decker.
- Jig saw. I used to believe that jig saws were universally of
limited value because they wander but needed to replace an old one.
I took a look at a Bosch GST. It is like chalk and cheese. This is
an outstanding tool. With other Bosch products, I am less impressed.
I could list dozens of cases like this, but to be clear:
- No I don't automatically think that all tools from a given stable
are uniformly of good quality
- I pick and choose very carefully.
- I make the point that for me, purchase price is not the most
important factor but *a* factor. There are a whole raft of other
things that I take into account and I look at the lifetime cost and
quality. This does *not* mean that I simply throw money at the
issue. Far from it. If I am going to spend north of £150 for a
drill, £250 for a router or £400-500 for a mitre saw, believe me, I
research and check into it *very* carefully.
- I would rather invest the time and effort (and money) once in a long
time and get something really good, than to make a casual £40
purchase, probably waste three trips back to the store and have no
cover for it at all in three years. To me, that is a nonsense way to
do things.
The only reason you don't like them is that IMM recommends them.
No, that is not a reasonable conclusion at all. The only comment I
would make on that is that he has tended to make the point that cheap
stuff is good enough for DIY. I fundamentally don't accept that
principle.
Aren't you being as irrational and dogmatic as you accuse him of being?
Not at all. I always try to present well reasoned arguments. The
premises that I work from may be different for other people, and
that's fine. I have simply shared knowledge from personal experience
and based on a broader set of criteria than simply allowing volume
retailers to tell me what I should be buying. Some people, perhaps
even the majority are happy to allow that. Based on the stuff moving
off the shelves in B&Q, that may well be true. However, ask yourself
just how much of that is intelligent buying by the consumer and how
much is dictated by what is on the shelves.
If somebody suggests to me that something should be done in a certain
way or be purchased and there is an apparent formulaic element to it,
then I naturally check it out. There are people all around us who
would like us to do things in a particular way because it suits them
for whatever reasons. I could quote you dozens of examples of this
from all walks of life. For me, I seem to have something of a nose
for it and if it matters as it often does, then I check it out and
very often do something different with me, not them in the driving
seat.
I hope that that makes the point abundantly clear.
--
..andy
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