Cuprager wrote in message ...
Holly, in France wrote:

Cuprager wrote in message ...

Holly, in France wrote:

Cuprager wrote in message



DONT BREAK THE CORNER OFF TO HAVE A
LOOK !!! Utter stupidity.


How do you think analysts take samples?

They take them by vacuum sealing around the sample area,
and use a suction system...


Serious question this. How exactly do they get a sample by suction?
I
imagine they must use some other tool within their sealed area?

Exact details of equipment specs etc i dont know, im just passing on
what the sampler told me... i am a nosy sort that likes to know what
is going on!

Well, if you have feel like being nosy again, please ask them. They
really can't suck off bits of asbestos board! I guess that if they are
using a tool they must be getting the tool out of the sealed system
somehow, or using disposable tools, or taking them out for
decontamination afterwards.


my workplace has just been
sampled, more than 9000 samples taken like this.


Fair enough, if that is the case, times and methods have changed.


Do you think that someone who works in the
asbestos industry would be breaking apart material that
they do not know to 'see' if there is asbestos there?


That is exactly how it was done up until a few years ago. Analysts
wore
suits and masks of course, but an air test taken in an area where
one
small piece of amosite board were sampled would be very unlikely to
find
any significant levels of fibres in the air. I'm not suggesting
people
should go around doing it all the time, but taking one sample, once,
carefully, is acceptable IMO.

To quote your earlier post...

"You could carefully break off a small corner and look
at it closely. If you can see fibers I think it would be worth getting
it tested by your local authority"

You didnt mention anything to the op about suits and masks.

Yes, I am well aware of what I wrote. Analysts are sometimes sampling
all day long, day in, day out. They don't know until they get to a site
what they are going to find. It is their job. It's very different taking
9000 samples in a workplace to one person taking one sample, once, in
one domestic garage.


Have you ever heard of corporate
liability?


Of course, see my recent reply to Peter Parry in another thread.


Would you ask an employee to identify it like this????


With a suit and mask, possibly, depending on current legislation and
guidelines.

Why didnt you mention this to the op then?

Because we weren't talking about employees then, who as analysts would
be doing it all the time, we were talking about a one off sample in a
domestic garage.

The consequences are a little more frightening than
giving bum plumbing advice etc!

If I felt there were any frightening consequences I wouldn't have
suggested it.

If it was asb then it is not
identifiable by eye...


It can be perfectly visible by eye. Positive identification
requires a microscope.



the fibres are 100x 'thinner' than a human hair.


Have you ever seen any? They vary. The larger 'fibres' are smaller
fibres clumped together.

These comments frighten me.



I am astounded by yours too. I now see exactly what PP means in some
of
his posts.

You are astounded by what?

What I meant was that I am astounded by the panic that the word asbestos
appears to induce in people, regardless of the type of asbestos and the
material, quantity and situation in which it is present. Also somewhat
surprised by the fact that despite possibly never having seen asbestos
fibres you are advising people about their size and are frightened by my
description of them. The ones that do the damage are very tiny indeed,
the biggest visible clumps I have seen in any product are probably about
2mm diameter. Bigger clumps in samples, museums etc.

Me urging the OP to treat asbestos with the
respect that it deserves? I think that your comments are reckless and
dangerous and put into practice they could harm peoples health.

Fair enough, we must agree to differ then.


I hope for the sake of you and those around you
that havent tried out your theory too many times!


Which bit of it exactly? Sampling I have always done by carefully
breaking or cutting pieces off, with suit and mask etc,

Again you now mention suit and mask.

Because I have done it hundreds, I would imagine thousands, of times. If
for example I were buying a house and had to do it once, now, in a
garage, I would. If I were doing it day in day out I would not.

as did hundreds
of people when that was the recognised way to do it. Same for the
analysis, visual inspection in a 'fume' cupboard, followed by
microscopic analysis.

Not picking on you but what if the op had broke apart the board going
by your advice, had a good look to see if there were fibers there,
maybe passed the bit of board to his wife who had the kids at her
feet to have a look... not a nice thought, is it?

I really can't see the logic in this. If I had thought there was any
significant risk to the OP I wouldn't have suggested it in the first
place. Why would his wife and children be at any more at risk than the
OP? The fibres in the board are not going to jump out and attack anyone,
they will stay where they are as long as they are not disturbed. I
wouldn't give it to children to handle obviously!

I'm not saying that asbestos is a safe substance, it's clearly not, it
can be lethal. I spent most of my career sampling, analysing and
advising on the removal of it. I'm saying that one has to assess the
risk in each individual case, and that is what I did here. I agree
entirely with your point in another post about asking the local
authority to have a look, that is the best course of action. But.....if
people are afraid to do that, as they sometimes seem to be, for fear of
the cost implications (not of the sampling but of the consequences of
the visit), insurance implications, house price devaluation, etc etc,
that is their decision. If they wish to carefully take a sample and post
it off for analysis if necessary, then depending on the situation and
material in question, I think that is acceptable.

I understand that you don't feel the same way. There are probably still
people about who would happily rip off sprayed coating in the middle of
the night if they could get away with it, and at the other end of the
scale are the 'one fibre of any type of asbestos is lethal' people. Most
peoples views will be somewhere in between, and I'm sure we all think
that we have a reasonable and balanced view of the situation. Yours is
different to mine, Peters is different again.

Last word welcome etc :-)



Holly, in France.
Holiday home in the Dordogne,
website: http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr