Ed, I guess I got into this thread a bit late. I was about to recommend
Mike Costin's book (I also have a 1965 or thereabouts copy), and was going
to comment on the "birdcage" Maserati too. You beat me to both. We must
share the same passion. I used to have a piece of Maserati type 61 bell
housing that landed at my feet when a driver at the Cumberland MD races blew
up his clutch halfway down the straight. Ah, those were the days.
When I lived in the UK, I visited the shop of a guy who builds Morgan
3-wheelers virtually from scratch. (OK, nothing to do with space frames,
but a really cool cul de sac in automotive history.) If you can find a hulk
chassis, he'll build you a car. He was even casting gearboxes for some
models.
--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:51:21 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
.. .
Awright, I know there's folks here who know about this. After seeing
a
1949 Ferrari 166MM on the show "Victory By Design" I wanna learn
about
tubular space frames. That 166MM car has a just about perfect body.
The looks of the car just blew me away when it first showed up on the
tv screen. The interior and the engine were also spectacular. So , I
guess books should be a good starting point but what about web sites
with examples. And a link to pictures of the 166MM with the body off
would be great too. I've googled and haven't found any yet. So,
books,
web sites, museums ?
Thanks,
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine
Welcome to my secret passion. g First off, the 166M (popularly known
as
the Barchetta [bar-ket-a], not to be confused with the more recent
Ferrari
of the same name) did not have a space frame. It was twin-tube. As an
aside,
the Barchetta is the car copied by AC of the UK and which became the AC
Ace.
Carrol Shelby stuffed a Ford V8 into the Ace and it became the Cobra.
Then
Shelby beat the Ferraris with it for the World GT Championship.
Back to the question, there is one book that is an absolute must for
anyone
interested in space frame car construction, _Racing & Sports Car
Chassis
Design_, by M. Costin and D. Phipps. I have an original copy from 1965,
but
I'm told it was recently reprinted. You need that book if you want to
avoid
going around in circles. It's still *the* book for understanding the
ideas
behind space frames.
Beyond that, _Chassis Engineering_ by Herb Adams, and _Race Car Chassis
Design and Construction_ by Forbes Aird. I think they're both in print.
There are other chassis books but I don't know how much they talk about
space frames. I have a couple of others but they're mostly about
monocoque
and other types.
There also is a welding book that specifically talks about welding
space
frames, _Performance Welding_ by Richard Finch. It's pretty good.
Ignore
what he says about brazing 4130. He's wrong about that.
Web sites? About Ferraris or space frames? 'Lots about Ferraris. Little
about space frames. I've looked.
Regarding racing frame history, here's a short sequence: 1) Ladder-type
frames. 2) Twin-tube frames. 3) Multi-tube frames (Cooper). 4) Space
frames
(1948 Cisitalia; 1952 Lotus and Mercedes-Benz). 5) Semi-monocoque. 6)
Monocoque ("tubs").
That will keep you oriented. It's all explained in Costin & Phipps'
book.
Have fun.
Thanks Ed,
The show said it was a tubular space frame. I think.
They may have said it. They may not know exactly what a "space frame" is.
Don't be surprised, even some serious car historians can't tell a space
frame from a henhouse. g
Ferrari and Maserati used twin-tube frames until well after their time was
passed. I don't think Ferrari made a space frame until the late '50s. The
same is true of several other major makes that won races anyway. It's a
complicated story, the interaction of chassis design, engine power, tires,
and suspension. It was clear by 1952 that space frames were superior but
tires and suspensions weren't yet up to the job of exploiting the extra
stiffness. The Cobra, even in 427 form and into the late '80s, was winning
races with a twin-tube chassis.
In the case of old Ferraris, some people get confused because there is a
lot
of small structural tubing under the hood. But the "structure" is body
framing, not the car chassis. It doesn't support the major weights
(engine,
trans, passengers, fuel tank) and it isn't tied to the suspension. It just
stiffens the body and connects it to the chassis. Thus, it's not part of
the
chassis structure.
I'll watch it
again. It's too bad that it seems like there are no pictures of the
166MM without the body on.
Chassis pics of most cars are hard to come by. I have some, including an
Elva Courier which many people said was a space frame, back when I did a
little racing. When you look at the naked chassis, you realize it isn't
so.
It's actually a very flimsy twin-tube with some body framing tacked on.
Someone gave me a coffee-table book as a present, _Inside 100 Great Cars_,
by David Hodges, which is the best collection of chassis cut-away drawings
I've ever seen. If you can find it, you might want to get one of those.
The
oldest Ferrari it shows is a 250 GTO, which is a fully triangulated space
frame.
BTW, the drawing you really want to see is the Maserati Tipo 60/61. They
didn't call it the "Birdcage" for nothing. g
I suppose it will be easier to find
pictures of ACs though. I'll look for the books you mentioned. Man, if
I had the time now I'd build a 166MM. What a car!
Look at this and drool:
http://www.tinmantech.com/html/ferrari.html
Those chassis photos, BTW, are of a multi-tube chassis almost trying to be
a
space frame, but not quite making it. Ferrari just didn't have advanced
chassis until the 1960s.
The mark of a true space frame is that all structural tubes are straight,
and all loads are resolved at tube-end joints, with the overall structure
fully triangulated in three dimensions. If you see a tube connecting
mid-span along another tube, chances are it's not a space frame (although
it
could be; further discussion is necessary). If you see a pair of
trussed-girders on the sides of a car, but with no triangulation across
the
chassis that resists front-to-rear torsion loads, it's not a true space
frame. Likewise, if you see a bent tube and it's structural, the frame is
not a space frame (Coopers were built like that). The Cobra Daytona Coupe
has a number of bent tubes, for example, but they are not structural as
far
as I can tell from photos.
--
Ed Huntress