Let's face it it's not hard to stick a neon screwdriver in, and I check
BOTH Live and Neutral - I've seen several live black wires :-0

I've also seen some nightmares up in some ceiling roses i've changed over
for friends &c. [1]

Cheers,

Paul.

You as well !. We must have ridden the same range with the same cowboys.
Dave

And you were born knowing all about ms windows....??