"Bill Grumbine" wrote in message

Howdy everyone. I haven't posted for a while here, except to announce
updates to my webpage and tout my DVD coming up, but this has been a very
interesting discussion, and I have somewhat to contribute. Max, I have
discovered that fair market rate doesn't really apply in most of my
situations of selling turnings. In the most absolute sense it does, but
the
key to to make things that are not available elsewhere on the market. For
example, most of my spindle turning is for people who cannot get what they
want anywhere else. There really is no market rate for that.

While you won't find such "rates" in the BUC book, there still is a market
rate for such things. In health care we refer to them as reasonable and
customary charges. As an extreme example, if a customer needs a balustrade
for his ancient stairway, he may be willing to pay a lot for it. So he
approaches you, and you say: "I can replicate one of those for $2000." He
says, "thanks, but I'll ask someone else." Market ceilings, while not
finite or predetermined, do exist. Obviously among the very wealthy such
ceilings tend to seem almost limitless, but they still exist.

It is more
like, "How much is it worth to you?" If it is worth what I tell them I
will
charge, then I get the job. If not, they keep looking. Of course, I
manage
to screw up from time to time and pay for the privilege of working, but
that
rarely happens anymore.

For bowls and other "art" pieces, it comes down to quality, perception and
time spent. The quality has to be there for people to pay the big bucks.
Sure there are some unperceptive people out there with money, but the
supply
is not as great as we might wish sometimes. Perception. Wood sells
better
when there is a story - any story, but if you can make it relevant to the
buyer, that helps to sell it. As a person builds a reputation, the name
written on the bottom of the bowl increases its value, even in a regional
setting. If we keep selling in a certain area and develop as we go, we
will
also develop a following of people who like our work.

This falls under the general classification of marketing. A story, your
reputation, developing a client base: all marketing. And creative or
astute marketing can conceivably raise the limit on the fair market rate of
a turner's products.


Marketing ourselves is very important.

Guess I should have read on before typing the above paragraph. :-)

There are some fantastic turners out
there who are not really people people, if you know what I mean. You can
have a barn full of stuff to sell, and it can all be beautiful, but if you
do not like or know how to market or sell, and are unwilling to pay
someone
to do it for you, it is going to stay in that barn. Running a business
means that you spend a lot of time not making the product or performing
the
service that the business provides. There has to be a balance, but there
is
a lot more to it and cranking stuff out on the lathe.

Ah yes, the age-old time constraint between being an artist and a salesman
all in one body.

Time is of the essence.

I really should read on before typing. :-))

All other things being roughly equal, the only way
to to improve profitability is to make the stuff faster. Back in the old
days of the mid 90s, I made nothing but pens. I had a tiny shop, so I
specialized. I was also one of the first five people on the internet to
sell wooden pens. We all knew who each other were, and checked up on one
another from time to time. I did time studies on myself on a regular
basis,
and I got to the point where I could make 10 pens an hour, and I sold them
on the interenet as fast as I could make them. Those pens sold for $25.00
each. I did not turn 8 hours a day. I had to make my own boxes, do the
rest of the business, etc. Now there are about a skillion people on the
internet making pens, and half of them are selling them below what it
costs
them to make them. Guess what I don't make anymore?

This was one of my original contentions: will the fair market rate allow me
to turn and sell my products. Your pen example makes my point. Obviously
OOAK turnings fall under a somewhat different set of rules, but the basic
principle is the same, I think.

Right now I can turn a 12" salad bowl in about an hour. Total time
invested
including harvesting the wood, roughing the blank, etc, usually represents
about 2 hours. That bowl will sell for $120.00. If the wood is figured,
or
it is a natural edged art piece, I can make the price significantly
higher.
I also have somewhat of an unusual advantage over some in that I burn wood
for heat in one of my outbuildings. So, harvested wood that degrades
beyond
use, scraps, etc, all get used to keep me and mine warm during the winter.
That work would have to be done anyway, so there is a side benefit.

Anyway, this is a longwinded way of saying that in my experience,
distinguishing myself from the pack, going to markets where there is a
different scale, and using everything to its best advantage have allowed
me
to make my turning profitable. I am not a millionare by any stretch, and
will never be. My wife has a good job and that helps tremendously, but
lots
of people are able to say that, whether they are turners or not. My
woodturning and other woodworking allows me to do something I love, get
paid
for it, and actually make a little bit of money as profit. I think that
if
you look at most famous woodworkers, turners, or whatever (And I do not
claim to be in that group) you will find that not many, if any, are what
one
would call wealthy by our current standards. However, if wealth is
counted
as being able to do something you love and live on it, then that to me is
wealth.

Your post is probably the most thorough in answering my original query.
Thanks, Bill.

Max