On 12 Sep 2004 12:22:26 -0700, (Alex)
wrote:

Guys

This could take some time to explain! I have a gas fired central
heating and hot water system that is 9 years old. It comprises an
Ideal 40k Btu boiler, Honeywell 4073 3 way motorised valve, hot water
cylinder and thermostat, room stat, a Horstman Channel XL time control
unit for HW and CH, and a Grundfos 15/60 pump.

The problems started early this year with heating failure. My plumber
changed the pump and three way valve electronic head (with the wrong
item I discovered today). He got the heating running, but if the
heating was on with the hot water (both are pumped via the three way
motorised valve), the boiler would kettle up in about one minute and
click off. So, we compromised and switched the hot water off at the
wall controller and hey presto, the heating would run. We have used
the immersion all summer for hot water. I tried the heating last
weekend, and guess what, with the hot water off, the boiler kettles up
in about one minute and there is no heat. The flow from the boiler is
scalding, and the return stone cold. So, I figure it must be:

1. Pump failure
2. Three way valve failure
3. A blockage

How far from the boiler does the flow pipe still feel hot?

Are the pump and valve on he flow side?

Can you feel the pump running when in HW mode?



I replaced the three way valve last weekend, and no change. I took the
(seven month old) pump off today and it works perfectly - I ran it
with the bleed screw off and it spins without fault. I took it off its
mounting to make sure it hadn't seized during the long summer layoff.
I changed the Honeywell valve head for the correct one and still no
heating or hot water. I lifted the carpet in the dining room and let
the system drain through for one hour and the water coming out is
CLEAR.

I am absolutely stumped. Basically there is no return flow to the
boiler for whatever reason. I can only imagine that there is a
physical blockage in the return pipe. What do I do, strip pipes and
re-solder new ones in?

There has never been a dreadful sludge build up in my rads - I have
taken them off several times for decoration etc and, OK, the water is
a bit black, but there has never been excessive deposit.

Does anybody have any suggestions as to:

1. What is wrong, and
2. How I fix it?

I am on the verge of calling the plumber out but even he was baffled
earlier in the year.

Thanks

Alex

If both CH and HW were affected, then I would say to check the
thermostat in the boiler. On a simple standard boiler, the pump
over-run thermostat is typically part of the main thermostat.
Failure in this area generally leads to the ump not running at all and
the boiler short cycling.

If the problem is DHW or CH only, then the microswitches in the
motorised valve are often a culprit, but you replaced that already.

This suggests a problem with the controller or perhaps a loose or
broken wire. I would look there next. You may have to do end to end
continuity checks along the cables. This would apply if the pump
doesn't feel as though it's running in DHW mode.

Only after all this checks out and you are sure that the valve is
rotating OK and that the pump is running does it make sense to start
pulling the system apart.

One other possibility, is if the pipework is badly laid out around the
cylinder with no way to vent from the top of the coil, and you have a
big airlock in the circuit.




..andy

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