On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 04:23:20 GMT, Dale Scroggins
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:33:04 GMT, Dale Scroggins
wrote:


Anyway, Gunner, the answer to both your questions is "yes". I may have
anticipated some other questions. What do you believe now, and why?

Dale Scroggins


At this point, I shall take a wait and see stance.

Im still wondering why the daughter and wife of the gent in question
state categorically that those are frauds.

Gunner

I saw reports of statements by the widow and a son. Didn't see anything
about a daughter; widow and son said, as I recall, it was unfair to
pick out things the "gent" wrote thirty years ago and broadcast them
when he couldn't put his statements in context. Valid point, but
uncorrectable. After we die, things we wrote down are likely to be
taken at face value.

Widow avows he wasn't a typist. Didn't discuss likelihood of a clerk or
secretary.

Didn't see anything from either the widow or the son claiming direct
knowledge that the documents were forged. Just general sentiment.
Widow admits he left some other documents around, but she really hasn't
looked for them.

Dale Scroggins

You are correct. I was thinking of another fellow who a number of
years ago swore under oath that Bush had crossed his Is and dotted his
t's, then recently said he had not. I was thinking of his daughter who
had posed the question and exposed him..

Name starts with a B..just recently..last week

Might also want to read this article currently running on
www.drudgereport.com

"Saturday, another retired Air National Guard officer came forward to
attack CBSNEWS credibility. Retired Maj. Gen. Bobby W. Hodges, who was
cited by a senior CBS official on Thursday as the network's "trump
card" in verifying the documents, said in an interview that he was
"misled" by CBS and believed the documents to be forgeries.

Hodges said that he was read only excerpts of the documents and never
saw the documents. A CBS spokesman said the network stands by its
report. "

And this one....G

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...shguard11.html

More challenges about whether Bush documents are authentic

By Pete Slover
The Dallas Morning News

AUSTIN, Texas — The man named in a disputed memo as exerting pressure
to "sugarcoat" George W. Bush's military record left the Texas Air
National Guard a year and a half before the memo supposedly was
written, his service record shows.
An order obtained by The Dallas Morning News shows that Col. Walter
"Buck" Staudt was honorably discharged March 1, 1972. CBS News
reported this week that a memo in which Staudt was described as
interfering with officers' negative evaluations of the future
president's service was dated Aug. 18, 1973.

That added to mounting questions about the authenticity of documents
that seem to suggest Bush sought special treatment as a pilot, failed
to carry out a superior's order to undergo a physical exam and was
suspended from flying for failing to meet Air National Guard
standards.

Staudt, who lives in New Braunfels, Texas, did not return calls
seeking comment. His discharge paper was among documents obtained by
The Morning News from official sources during 1999 research into
Bush's Guard record.

A CBS staffer stood by the story, suggesting Staudt could have
continued to exert influence over Guard officials. But a former
high-ranking Guard official disputed that, saying retirement would
have left Staudt powerless.

Authenticity of the memo and three others included in Wednesday's "60
Minutes" report came in for heavy criticism yesterday, prompting an
unusual, on-air defense of the original work. Experts on typography
said the memos appeared to have been computer-drafted on equipment not
available at the time.

And the widow and son of the officer who supposedly wrote them, Lt.
Col. Jerry Killian, who died in 1984, have said it wasn't his nature
to keep detailed personal notes.

In its news broadcast yesterday, CBS said the documents were supported
by both unnamed witnesses and others, including document examiners.

CBS anchor Dan Rather earlier told The Dallas Morning News that he had
heard nothing to make him question the legitimacy of the memos. He
attributed the backlash to partisan politics and competitive
journalism.

"This story is true. The questions we raised about then-Lieutenant
Bush's National Guard service are serious and legitimate," he said.
"Until and unless someone shows me definitive proof that they are not,
I don't see any reason to carry on a conversation with the
professional rumor mill."

The Washington Post quoted Rather as saying CBS had talked to two
people who worked with Killian — his superior, retired Maj. Gen. Bobby
Hodges, and his administrative assistant Robert Strong — and both
described the memos as consistent with what they knew of Killian.
Hodges, who told CBS he was "familiar" with the documents, is an avid
Bush supporter and "it took a lot for him to speak the truth," the
Post quoted Rather as saying.




The Los Angeles Times, however, later quoted Hodges as saying that he
believed the memos from Killian were not real. A CBS news executive
confirmed that Hodges had changed his story.

Rather's interview with The Morning News concluded before the
newspaper determined the date of Staudt's departure, but a CBS staffer
with extensive knowledge of the story said later that the departure
doesn't derail the story. "From what we've learned, Staudt remained
very active after he retired," the staffer said, speaking on condition
of anonymity. "He was a very bullying type, and that could have
continued."

In the "60 Minutes" report, Rather said of the memo's contents:
"Killian says Col. Buck Staudt, the man in charge of the Texas Air
National Guard, is putting on pressure to 'sugarcoat' an evaluation of
Lt. Bush."

Staudt was the person Bush initially contacted about Guard service,
and he was the group commander at Ellington Air Force Base in Houston
when Bush arrived there to fly an F-102 jet. He transferred later to
Austin, where he served as chief of staff for the Air National Guard.

In the disputed memo, Killian supposedly wrote "(another officer) gave
me a message today from group regarding Bush's (evaluation) and Staudt
is pushing to sugarcoat it."

It continues: "Austin is not happy either."

The CBS staffer said the memo appears to recognize that Staudt has
retired, since it differentiates between his displeasure and that of
Austin, where he served his final Guard stint.

But another Texas Air National Guard official who served in that
period said the memo appears to wrongly associate Staudt with his
group command in Houston, and — based on that mistake — the memo
distinguishes his views from that of the Austin Guard.

Retired Col. Earl Lively, director of Air National Guard operations
for the state headquarters during 1972 and 1973, said Staudt "wasn't
on the scene" after retirement, and that CBS' remote-bullying thesis
makes no sense.

"He couldn't bully them. He wasn't in the Guard," Lively said. "He
couldn't affect their promotions. Once you're gone from the Guard, you
don't have any authority."

Bush has not commented publicly about the CBS report, and aides say
his honorable discharge proves he fulfilled his obligations.


Copyright © 2004 The Seattle Times Company





"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke