"Ban" wrote in message
...
Your ignorance is really showing up. If the specs are not met, that supply
goes back on guarantee and it eventually will drive this supplyer out of
business. In Europe we have now a 2years guarantee by law and believe it
or
not, when a part fails because of undervoltage the seller has to take it
back and repair/replace it.

So if it fails within that 2 year period, great; do you believe
that all suplies which fail due to an undervolt condition are
within their warranty period? Or that simply because a
failure DOES occur within the warranty period, that this
MUST be indicative of a sufficiently widespread problem such
that the supplier WILL be "driven out of business?"

Again, if your model is correct, power supplies that don't meet
spec should never be found in the real world. I claim that
such things do, in fact, exist. Care to bet which of us can
support their position through evidence?

As to "my ignorance really showing" up, you're right - after
25+ years as an engineer working for one of the major
computer companies, I clearly don't know squat about the
realities of the electronics manufacturing business.

Both Intel-generated specifications exist, and UL standards
exist. And so, according to you, everything ever
designed and built automatically complies with those
standards? Hallelujah! I can call down to the test lab
right now, and tell those guys to take it easy! There's
nothing more for them to do!!!!


It is a criminal offense if UL-specs are not met, and if any personal
injury
happens you will pay big bucks.

Actually, it isn't, although that is a widespread misconception.
The UL standards do not carry the force of law, nor is there
any law making it a criminal offense to sell a product which is
not UL certified or registered. UL compliance can and will
enter into liability awards resulting from failed products, but
that is a civil issue, not a criminal one. Further, simply obtaining
UL certification basically just says that, IF built as designed
from the specified components, the product can reasonably be
expected to meet the specification in question. The nature
of testing and statistics being what it is, this can never be a
perfect assurance of 100% compliance, unless the product in
question is subjected to extensive finished-product testing
in 100% of the units shipped. Especially for consumer goods,
this is basically never the case, with the exception of a few
key specifications. And no testing can ever be a 100%
guarantee of continued compliance for all time, for the reasons
mentioned earlier having to do with aging, electrical and
mechanical stress, and so forth.

There is a responsability involved and if
you fake the CE or UL or whatever rules apply in your country, you will be
prosecuted.

Yes, but that's not what's being discussed here. Forging
a UL mark is irrelevant to the topic under consideration, which
is the reliability and failure modes of power supplies.


Mr Meyer, you must be one of those bean counters. What a stupid and
arrogant
commentary. The consumer has a lot of laws on his side and especially in
the
US you better not deliver any sub-spec mercendise declared as being ok. If
you buy at the surplus store or Ebay, you might end up with what you are
descibing, but this stuff is not guaranteed meeting the specs.

Nope; I am not now, nor have I ever been, a "bean counter."
It is simply a fact of life that NOT all products shipped will
meet their published specifications 100%, and those which do
will not continue to do so forever. Again, if you feel otherwise,
please call up the head of our service and support organization, and
inform them that everyone can go home now.

What published specifications really mean, from a legitimate supplier,
is that IF the product delivered does not meet the specifications
(which generally can be considered as being a part of the purchase
agreement - i.e., you did not agree to buy THIS product, but instead
you actually agreed to buy a product which met these specifications),
then you have the right to return it and expect a replacement. But
simply publishing the specifications by no means is perfect assurance
that every product shipped/received WILL actually meet its specs
when it reaches the customer. SOMETIMES, this is due to shoddy
design and/or manufacturing - but even the best manufacturer in the
world for whatever product you're considering still has the occasional
failure-upon-delivery. Welcome to the real world.

Bob M.