Bob Hobden wrote:



Wrong. The hydrogen has to be made. An innefficent process that burns as
much, if not more, fossil fuel than any other form of transport.


Not quite true, fuel cells don't burn anything and Hydrogen can be obtained
from the usual sources, LPG, Petrol, Natural Gas, methane, methanol etc by
the use of a reformer which is significantly more efficient and less
polluting than when the same fuel is burnt.


Fuel cells do chemically transform fuels into waste products. The fact
that its at a temperature where no flame is produced doesn't inviolate
the chemistry. Perhaps I should have placed "burn" in inverted commas...

LPG, Natural Gas, Methane - these are all fossil fuels that require the
bound carbon to be tirned into usually CO2 to release stored energy. It
makes no odds how its done.


Al you are gaining is a slight improvement in efficiency.



Electricity produced by/from Fuel Cells (probably the Molten Carbonate type)
which will significantly improve the efficiency of fossil fuel Power
Stations. Some cells are already in use for small scale static power
stations.



That is a sound idea. I have no argument against fuel cells used in
static power generation as a more efficient way of making electricity. I
just think that hydrogen, and mobile fuel cells, is in teh first case
too expensive, and in te second place not a long term solution.

We need to concentrate on

(i) efficient and low pollution electrity generatin

and

(ii) electric cars to use it using existing (enhanced) infrastructure and

(iii) not using cars at all.




I understand it would take a battery of solar cells the size of 25% of the
UK to power the whole world from sunlight, especially in a desert area with
high sunlight levels. Such electricity could be used directly in vehicles
with normal batteries or to produce Hydrogen from water to power fuel cells
( which are batteries too).


Excellent idea if it were feasible. Solar cells are alarmingly
inefficient and expensive though. I think you will find that pounbd for
pound, its ceaper to e.g. grow and coppice willow, and burn it or turn
it into methanol, than cover the same acreage of ground with solar
cells, AND get more energy out of it too.





Much more efficient to burn the hydrogen in a reciprocating (or rotary)
engine than to convert it through a fuel cell to run an electric motor,
though electrically propelled vehicles do have the potential to convert
the slowing down process back into usable power.


ever heard of regenerative braking, had it on coaches for
years and there are other more recent developments in this area relating to
normal cars too.


That is what I was describing? Not sure why you appearded to contradict
whilst actually saying the same thing..:-)




However the real simple answer that dare not speak its name, is 'why the
**** do we need to go anywhere at all' and the answer is, mostly we

don't.

Lets face it most of what we do could be done in front of a console from
home, if we had to.


Unlike you I don't want to spend my life in a prison, even a very nice one.


No one said you had to. I merely questin teh need to :-

(i) take the car out to run teh klids 2 miles to school
(ii) take th car out to get to the staion to got to work
e(iii) take the car out again to do teh shopping
(iv) take the car out to pick teh kids up from school again.
(v) take the car out at teh weekend to drive round 14 different sheds
only to find that the thing you wanted could be got from Screwfix online
without using teh car at all.

Knock out all thise unneccesary journeys, and taking the car out to
actually enjoy your friends company, go down the pub, go out to a show -
well the roads are now clearer, speeds aare higher, stress and power use
is lower, and the world is not so polluted.






And I suppose the goods we need will be delivered through the telephone
wires too? When I go shopping I visit a number of outlets. I can see
what I want to buy, and reject what had interested me from its
description. I generally share a car with a friend's family anyway,
doubling the efficiency of a trip. Well, since he has a family, more
than doubling it.

Sorry, your dream will never catch on.


That's not a dream it's a nightmare.



Its not. Its how it will be. We spend a huge amount of our lives driving
to no real benefit and for no real reason iher than thats the way its
done. No one says we stop doing it entirely, just stop doing 75% of it.