"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 7 May 2021 at 12:52:32 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 7 May 2021 08:56:44 +0000 (UTC), RJH
wrote:
snip
I wonder when we'll* stop obsessing about price and think about wider
costs
like animal welfare, sustainable farming and working conditions? Barely
a
mention in this thread - just money.
Good point Rob and I think one answer will be where there is a
critical mass of vegans to make others realise it's more 'normal' (for
an evolved human in 2021) to not treat animals the way some currently
do. (Aligning their actions with their morals).
First they have to realise what's going on, and whether it is cruel or
just nature,
with us at the top of the food chain.
I was atv a Spanish wedding in spain years ago as my veggie frinds ask for
some nom meat food. They were asked why they don't eat meat as that's what
God put animals on the Earth for .
I expected a massive arguement and raised voives but my veggie friends
just shook their heads and walked away.
I did ask my veggoe frined recently whether thier olive oil was vegan,
they lok at me confused and said of course it's
not meat and its not cruel to pick them.
https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/food...ng-bird-deaths
So I left them trying to work out were their olive oil comes from.
* those who can afford to choose
Again, something that will / is changing as the popularity for a vegan
lifestyle increases and quantity of scale and competition forces the
prices down, that along with making the meat / dairy / egg farmers pay
the real cost of their 'output' and removing any subsidies for any
food stuffs that aren't sustainable (like meat, dairy and eggs).
yes a lot of political back handers especailly in the EU, where everyone
is expected to contribute
their money to fund cheap meat production and dairy.
You're tax money has gone into this in the past, whether that will
continue though
is a little uncertain.
As mentioned elsewhere, how can a box of blueberries be more expensive
than a chunk of beef?
How can a pint of beer (mostly water) be more
expensive than cola , orange juice or even tea.
They higher taxes, stupid.
But don;t forget how expensive was but its now so cheap
to get it from the other side of the world, but is tea vegan ?
Nope, they mince the birds sitting on the top of the tea bushes too.
Start charging any industry for the cost of it's pollution or fining
it for polluting (that impacts all of us) are sometimes the only way
you can get these industries to change, and they either change or go
bust (demonstrating that they weren't really viable in the first
place, when the true costs are considered).
That would be very difficult to do, even if it's the right thing.
It's like raising the price of petrol a few fold to offset it;s damage.
How many would support that ?
As we remove livestock from areas that are just feeding livestock
(directly or indirectly) we can grow human consumable produce on much
of it and it's suggested that if we were only to use those areas that
is easily viable, there would still be more than enough area to grow
more food than we need.
I think it;s more difficult to transport things like fresh veg from the
other side of the world that
it is to do the same with frozen meat.
I was thinking about eggs and how we think that it's ok to keep taking
the eggs away from them (any bird) and that's 'ok'.
Maybe they just get used to it.
In todays world in the UK if yuo have gets you don't expect them to die
from hunger
por disease this is not so true in africa, such things are expected, it;s
why they have so many children per adult.
Which is also the same with animals.
eg, In nature a bird would lay a clutch of eggs (say 1 to 5 typically)
then stop, incubate them, see them fledge and eventually 'leave the
nest' and wouldn't keep doing that all year round, just in the
'breeding season'?
So why does a spider lay 1000s of eegs ?
Why do we disassociate chickens from these same birds and so think
it's ok to keep taking the eggs away, forcing them to carry on
creating eggs (in an unnatural quantity) until they are exhausted and
killed, simply because they are no longer productive at that
industrial level?
My veggies friends parents keep chicken and they do eat their eggs
but the are not commercaily sold adn I don;t think they force them to lay
eggs.
Bet they stand over them waving a chopper and tell
them that if they dont lay, its the stew pot for them.