On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 07:16:33 +0000 (UTC), RJH
wrote:

On 26 Apr 2021 at 21:21:26 BST, ""NY"" wrote:

It's when you start to think of even chocolate containing milk and therefore
being off-limits to vegans that I think some people have got their
morality:enjoyment-of-life balance a bit skewed ;-) I have great admiration
for people who respect animals to that extent, but I like meat and animal
products too much (and hate the alternatives too much) to entertain it
myself.

I'd think vegans are less life-skewed than most.

Of course. 'Most people' don't like killing most living things (some
draw the line at spiders and wasps, I don't) and most could never kill
a pig, cow, sheep or goat and would likely feint or a least throw up /
suffer nightmares if they visited an abattoir.

It's this disconnection of the moral / physical responsibility between
their morals and their actions they pay others to do on their behalf
that allows them to eat meat.

This gives a reasonably honest insight as to the life inside those
windowless sheds, as seen by a real human being (not a psychopath).
;-)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-50986683

For a start, they haven't got
that 'I love animals but still like eating them' dissonance rattling around
their brains.

Yup, logical inconsistency (eat a lamb but not a dog) fuelled by
cognitive dissonance (I know what happens to animals and don't like it
but I'm now conditioned to eat meat and am addicted to it (fats
actually). ;-(

As for liking non-human based food, I was surprised to see how easy it was for
me to cut those products out.

Same here. I was already off dairy on doctors orders (5 years) and we
have never been big meat eaters and even that has been reducing slowly
over the last few years. We went 'cold Turkey' on everything else in
Veganuary last year and it really hasn't been an issue.

Couple of days usually. I'd still pine for some
things - usually real crap, like sausages.

I'm guessing you have / tried all the vegan alternatives Rob (I
appreciate they are processed but still better than meat)? [1] We like
all we have tried (some more than others) but if you are looking for
something familiar (shape / texture / taste) to fill some
psychological role (and we often do, like on a fried breakfast) then
we have found they are fine. Further, I *really* don't miss the random
bits of bone, gristle or other 'surprises' you can often find in
processed meat. ;-)

We're just socialised to like
certain foods

And often from a very early age. And strangely, even though veganaism
(in practice if not in name) has been practiced by many for thousands
of years, it's never been easier than it is today and looking to get
even easier.

and it so happened my partner was vegan -

In our case it was our daughter learning that things like 'Red
Tractor' or 'RSPCA approved' meant little to the animals that still
suffered and died, felt she had to go further (and vegetarianism was
little better because dairy is probably worse than meat or eggs).

so maybe it was easier
for me.

Judging by the ignorance of some re what's available in a form that
everone can eat (vegans and carnists alike) by some here, having
someone to guide you initially can be handy, unless you are interested
enough to look into it yourself (and there is no excuse for not doing
that these days with Google etc). ;-)

(FWIW, I do occasionally have things like cheese and meat -
laziness).

We have used up most of what (animal based food) we had left in the
freezer / cupboard and so the only chance we would have of eating meat
/ dairy / eggs is if we were out, but given all the fast food places
do a vegan range (Gregg's are about to add two more vegan item off the
back of the massive interest in their vegan sausage rolls, 'steak
bake' and donuts, even opening another 200 stores I believe ...) and
would probably go hungry rather than eating anything animal based
these days (with the thoughts of what each animal had to suffer / lose
to bring the food to us).

We were out later than expected the other day and I popped into a
Tesco Express before getting in a dog walk and bought a couple of
vegan wraps, some vegan crisps (many are anyway etc) and drinks etc.
The wraps, not tried by us before were lovely so that's another
'option' we have found. ;-)

As a matter of interest, is there any reason why chocolate can't be made
with non-animal milk (eg soya/oat milk)?

Surprised you needed to ask - thought it was common knowledge.

And this is the thing. When discussing the whole veganism concept with
people I assume I knew as much about it when I first started but
that's obviously not the case. I wonder if it's a function of age, the
older you are the least likely you might be to being open minded,
change lifestyle to something you see to be 'better'?

Like if there are 'milks' that don't involve all the mess of taking it
from cows, why wouldn't you use them instead?

Aldi do some
decent chocolate that is also vegan.

Yup, daughter is local to an Aldi so I believe she get's quite a bit
there first, then Salisbury's (my ****y 4 for £1 lager is only
available there (and is vegan) and possibly Tesco / Iceland for all
the frozen stuff (veg / ice creams / burgers / sausages / mince).

She found some 'ready to eat' Chicken Tikka the other day that would
go lovely in a salad (we had it heated in a 'kebab') and some 'Chicken
Teriyaki strips' that were perfect in a stir fry (with some vegan
spring rolls).

I guess if you have eaten the same thing, 'meat and two veg' every
day, 'fish on Fridays ...' for most of your life then even the change
from that would be too much for some. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] Interested to replace the 'meat' bit in meals with something home
made so I followed a burger recipe on Youtube that was based around
black beans (all pulses are very good for you), that you can form when
finished into a sausage shape, or pate or chop and then fry / bake /
grill and then it both fills the space we are used to seeing that sort
of thing in and the taste / texture (to a reasonable level, and as you
say, it's all only learned behaviour). ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3vuBRUSV_8

It actually covers some of the things we have said about peoples
ignorance about vegetarianism / veganism, and the recipe (and that
anyone can do it, including a loud comedian). ;-)

(I made a tub of it that kept in the fridge for a good time and served
us over several different types of meal. I didn't use some of the
'extra' bits, like mustard and was the first time I'd used / eaten
quinoa etc).