On 01/04/2021 23:11, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 22:36:30 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

snip

Man is a natural predator too.

No, we can predate but we aren't really equipped to on much naturally
and we weren't born with the right weapons.

and the lambs their natural prey so that's just 'nature'
right

Yep, lambs are man's natural prey.

Nope. We couldn't catch them, couldn't easily kill them and certainly
couldn't dissect or consume them (without tools or fire).

We did and we domesticated them. Anything else is denial of the facts.

(and we know nature can be cruel)

But because we are a higher animal,

We are only so in some limited ways that we have been able to use to
our advantage. In many many aspects we are way primitive to other
species. You are a very good example of that. [1]

I understand many concepts such as consent that animals can't. Any
limitations we have in comparison with animals we have overcome.

We are as natural a predator of a sheep as we are natural in flight. 1
on 1 with no weapons and we would be easy pickings for a vast number
of the worlds creatures.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land. Were are a predator to sheep and to
believe otherwise says more about you way of thinking that you'll ever
understand.

we can improve animal welfare and
slaughter methods.

The two things are completely opposite. To improve animal welfare that
either means we have interfered with (****ed up their habitat) it or
caused it to happen directly (artificially breeding them in vast
numbers).

That's a feeble way of saying you don't care.

But you don't want that do you?

I don't want to put animals in the position where we need to get
involved in their welfare, no.

Then that is where you're going wrong.

snip troll ****

Cheers, T i m

[1] I believe this is the crux of your attitude towards other species.
You (truly) *believe* we are 'higher animals' AND THEREFORE have a
right to do what we want to all others.

That is right, we are a higher animal. We understand concepts like
consent. You would expect your dog to consent to having its genital
mutilated.

Except you then decide that you don't want other people eating duck or
goose livers that have been force fed?

That is right, I want to improve animal welfare, and you don't.
Make your mind up?

At what? I have been very clear all along, sorry of you can't follow my
views.

It's either one thing or the other, OR, there is some form of scale
where *you* decide where to draw the line?

I'm not sure what your saying here.

Intelligence, empathy, sociability, consent? You would be way down the
scale of all of those compared with even a dog.

More abuse. I consistently say we are a higher animal. You're
overstating the capabilities of a dog if you truly think they understand
consent. Was your dog asked if he wanted castration?