"NY" wrote in message
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
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In article ,
alan_m wrote:
If factory fitted (and possibly self fitted) they must be working for a
MOT. There may be only one rear fog light (drivers side) although on
some cars there may be just a reflector on the passenger side without a
light.

It's a legal requirement in some countries that there is only one rear
fog. Presumably to avoid confusion with brake lights.

I wondered if that was the case, given that a lot of recent cars have only
one fog light. My previous cars had two white lights in the clusters for
reversing and two red lights for fog, but there was no bulb in the
nearside fog light - so I added one, on the grounds that (IMHO) *all*
front and rear lights should be in pairs, to define the car's width.

Trouble is that its then easy to confuse with a car
heading towards you in your lane in heavy fog.

My current car has only one white light on the nearside (which is a bugger
when reversing at night and the offside of the road behind is not lit) and
only one red light on the offside.

A reversing camera fixes that.

I tend to put my fog light on when reversing at night, so both sides of
the car (eg walls/hedges that I'm reversing between) are lit up in either
white or red.

I think the "some countries" are making a very serious safety error in
mandating only one foglight.

I don’t for the reason I stated at the top.

I find in fog that it is essential that I can see both rear lights (and
fog lights do the same job in fog as tail lights in clear conditions, in
defining the width of the car when seen from a distance) and so can judge
(from the apparent spacing) how far away the car is when all I can see of
it are its fog light(s).

But in really bad fog that’s too late.

But the problem with my argument is motorbikes.

Clearly there is no best, if there was we would be using it.

My ideal grouping of rear lights would be:

- indicator
- side
- fog
- reflector
- brake

in that order (or the opposite) so the indicator is some distance from the
brake and fog lights, and so the fog and brake lights are separated and
therefore can be distinguished (I always look for the third high-level
brake light if I'm unsure whether it's fog or brake). I'd group side and
fog, except that this would place the bright fog light right next to the
indicator, making it hard to see the indicator if the car has its
foglights (or brake lights) on.

And a real problem for hatches.

Those considerations *far* outweigh any aesthetic rules about how "pretty"
the clusters look.

VW are terrible: the rear indicator is a ring around the side/brake light,
so it's almost invisible if the brake lights are on.

Bring back nice simple clusters, maybe even separate housings on the
rear/front body,

Not feasible with hatches and what you lot call estates.

and definitely don't put the front indicators anywhere near the
headlights!

Plenty have extra indicators on the side panel at the front now.

Lights are meant to be clearly visible in all conditions, not to look
pretty!

Yes but there are also other considerations like with hatches
and estates and vans.