On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 00:42:49 -0400, Michael Trew
wrote:

On 3/21/2021 7:22 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, March 21, 2021 at 4:33:18 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
Please forgive me--this is a bit of a rant.

I went to put a new fixture at the top of the stairs--the old one is
physically too small to hold anything bigger than a 60w incandescent
(by physically I mean you can't put the globe on if anything bigger is
in it, and that includes CF and LED that are larger than 60W
equivalent and in that location a 60 just isn't enough light.

Well, went to kill the power to the circuit and discovered chaos.

First:
Turned the switch off
Checked socket with a voltage sensor
Still voltage on the circuit
Par for the course in this house
Switch is in the neutral leg
Add to list of stuff to fix.

Next:
Screwed adapter into socket and plugged in tracer
Traced signal in breaker panel
Not one, but _two_ breakers showed signal
Turned both off
Went back upstairs
Checked for voltage again
No voltage--good
Flipped switch--checked again
Voltage--not good
Back to the panel
Identify third breaker, turn off
Now no voltage

Replaced fixture, turned breakers back on, everything works, I didn't
die.

But now I have the real mystery--how is this effing light managing to
be connected to not one, but _three_ separate branch circuits?


It's possible that you are dealing with an Edison circuit, also known as
a "shared neutral" or "multi-wire branch circuit". Granted, Edison circuits
usually only involve 2 breakers, but I think I could imagine one with 3.

In a typical Edison circuit a cable with 2 hots and a single neutral has the
2 hots tied to separate breakers. That 3 wire cable runs to a junction box
from which a pair of 2-wire (hot and neutral) cables emerge. Those 2 circuits
share the single source neutral from the 3 wire cable.

If you only turn off one breaker, you will often get some voltage that bleeds
back through the neutral at the supposed-to-be-dead fixture. If you used a
meter as opposed to a voltage sensor, I'll bet that it's not the full 120 VAC.

Now - although this is not something that I have ever seen - expand that to
a 4 wire source cable (3 hots and a single neutral) to the first junction box
and you've brought that 3rd breaker into the picture.

I don't know if a "super-Edison" (I made that up) would be allowed by code,
but I can certainly imagine someone grabbing some 12/4 Romex and running
one.




Sorry to butt in - but question. I have an Edison circuit (never knew
that was the name - having trouble finding info on-line) ... 2 K&T wires
running into a 120 year old ceramic fuse box - 2 hot shared neutral.

Someone told me that I need to have the two hots skip a breaker on the
same side so they are on the same phase - because if I use two phases it
can risk lighting up my wiring to 240V if a connection is broken.

Another person told me no, I need to have both hots on touching breakers
- opposing phases - because if I don't I can theoretically overload the
neutral line up to 30 AMP if the both circuits are loaded.

Do you have a suggestion as to which is safer? I won't run anything
more power-hungry than a fan, phone charger, or lamp on either of these
circuits. Certainly no heaters or A/C units. Everything else stays off
if I run the vacuum. Thanks!


An "edison circuit" sharing the neutral HAS to be across line - in
other words the lives have to be from opposite sides of the service
otherwise you are overloading the neutral. A "shared neutral" can NOT
be used on 2 circuits on the same side under ANY code -The only way
you would get high voltage on one side would be if you had a hneavier
load on the other side and an open neutral.