On 23/12/2020 11:19, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 00:58:33 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

Give a child an apple and a rabbit and it will play with the rabbit
and eat the apple. If on a desert island and without the conditioning,
at what point do you think it would think to eat the rabbit?


I would have it first, and save the apple for desert...

snip

Would you though? If you weren't brought up in a culture where animals
were seen as food, what would make you think they were edible?

One would presumably watch all the other animals chowing down on
critters lower in the food chain, and think "hmmm, maybe there is
something in that!"

All the early hominid hunter gatherers managed to figure it out ok (and
chances are we would not be here to even have this discussion had they not!)

With no fire (knowledge of or the means to make one), how would you
process it to even make it consumable?

Does fire not work on your desert island?

This is my point, if 'most people' see an injured animal or one in
distress they will generally do all they can to help.

Or put it out of its misery (depending on the severity of injury).

At which point, I can't see how even a vegan could with clear conscience
object to eating it. The death was premature, but at least it can
still help support life afterwards rather than go to waste.

Releasing it
from being caught and / or taking it to a vet / rescue to ensure it
gets treatment (as we did recently with a goose with a leg that was
about to drop off because of fishing line).

The cognitive dissonance would be after rescuing said animal, people
would go and tuck into the remains of another animal that would have
suffered at some point?

I don't require any cognitive dissonance, since I don't consider rearing
an animal for food production to be cruel or to necessarily cause it
suffering[1].

We are giving it a more comfortable (if shorter) existence than it would
likely have "in the wild" with its food and medial needs attended to,
and then a swift and hopefully painless death at the end.

I appreciate that you don't see it that way, but we will have to agree
to differ.

[1] I am not claiming that animal cruelty never happens - although from
what I have observed, well regulated professional farmers are highly
unlikely as a group to mistreat their animals.

Animals who wouldn't generally be here (or exist as a sub species)
*naturally*, they are only here because of *artificial* insemination.

I think you will find many males of various species will take any
opportunity to get jiggy with the girls given a chance!

(in fact man is the only species that can choose not to reproduce)

Farmed Turkeys are probably not alone in being a farmed animal (even
the terms now disgusts me) unable to breed naturally, because of how
much we have mutated them for our own needs.

So, killing anything should only ever be done out of necessity, kill
of be killed, self defence (when that is the only assured solution),
... or survival and the latter doesn't apply to the vast majority re
animals and food in 2020.

This (98 year old) sums most of it up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX58PyQwrcI

I get though why you would try to defend the idea of seeing (a
restricted sub set of all species of) animals as food, because that's
both how you were brought up and you say you have relatives who earn
their livelihoods off the exploitation of other creatures (as I and
millions of others would see it).

I have relatives who are (well were - retired now) farmers. They always
took great pride in the care of their dairy herds. Oh, and my
Grandfather was a master butcher with a chain of shops in the east end :-)


--
Cheers,

John.

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