On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 9:51:52 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 17:44:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 2:33:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 10:40:36 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/19/2020 5:06 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 17:32:42 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/19/2020 4:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:23:43 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/19/2020 11:06 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 20:35:15 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 7:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/18/2020 08:23 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:12:41 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/18/2020 1:35 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 7/17/2020 9:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/17/2020 08:33 PM, wrote:
They sent their kids back to the brick and mortar las year,
mostly for
socialization. Now they are home again. No huge shock, excerpt
for the
kids, who liked being with other kids.

Socialization is one of the arguments for public schools.. No
classroom
or playground activities for a year or two might make for a
generation
of weird people. Or weirder, I should say.

Kids parents and grandparents dying is anti-social too. Bu no, the
Repubs want to rush schools open in a major pandemic blowup, even
after
Israel proved it doesn't go well. This thing is not in control,
which is
absolutely necessary before opening schools.

No, we can't look at Israel, learn what they did, learn what works,
what
doesn't.Â* No, No, No.Â* This is AMERICA, we're the best, screw the rest.
That's Dear Leader and the New Republican Party.Â* If we had only looked
at China, South Korea, Taiwan, EU and learned we wouldn't be totally
screwed now with Covid.

If trump wants to open schools, he need to get testing and tracking
working. The longer he waits, the harder it will be to open anything up
safely.


How do you test and track kids who are in a school with 1000 others
who are in the wild for the other 18 hours a day? Do you really think
a teenager will tell anyone where he actually was all day? That is
particularly true of the most at risk kids.


Good luck with fast, accurate, and cheap testing. That's like the old
engineering joke that has 'pick any two' as the punchline.

There was an article about testing employees. It said the tests ran $100
a pop and the insurance companies were coming up with new, creative ways
to not pay for them. So, you test 50 employees this week for $5,000.
You're not done by any means. When do you retest? Next week? Tomorrow?

Now think about a school with a couple of thousand kids. What's your
plan, Bob F?


Have real testing and tracking so when you get the numbers down, you can
keep them down, instead of trumps method of giving up, setting the virus
free, and pretending it would go away. Testing and tracking means EVERY
case possible. Most other countries are managing a pretty good job of
it. The US is doing crap.

When you are talking about 1000 kid schools and with busing, they are
coming from 10 or 12 different neighborhoods, anyone with a modicum of
knowledge of large number math knows contact tracing is a joke.


Contact tracing does not only apply to kids.

If the kids are the vector, as this thread implies, my statement
stands. You have 1000 kids per school from a dozen different
neighborhoods scattered out across the county who are in different
groups, close together (different classes, different buses and
different play groups at home), How many contacts do you think are in
that tree alone. Then toss in everyone else in those 12,000 homes who
probably work in jobs with dozens if not hundreds of contacts. The
numbers are incomprehensible.
That is why I tend to agree, schools might be a dangerous place to
experiment.
Unfortunately the alternative is pretty ugly too because the kids
worst affected by a deficient education are exactly the ones from the
families most at risk, both from the virus but also from crime,
poverty and drug abuse.

Nobody wants to talk about that.


My Catholic high school had 3200 boys, the girls school had near that
and the public school 2500. What do you want to track? That is just
one portion of Philadelphia.

A private school, pulling kids in from all over the city might
actually be a pretty good analog but the public system multiplies that
by dozens of schools
Lee County has 49 elementary schools, 20 middle schools and 15 high
schools (some bigger than others, particularly at the elementary
level)
We have total "school choice". You can pretty much go to any school in
the county you want with a few restrictions. The District has "718
school buses transporting students to schools and home ... traveling
over 12.3 million miles each school year". (from their web site).
Some buses can hold 72 kids.
Track that.


And again, it is not about testing all the kids. It is about having an
adequate testing and tracking system on top of having controlled the
virus so that you can test and track and keep up with the virus. Europe
is doing that. China and Korea are, and many other countries are doing
that. But the Repubs have ignored, poo-pooed, and dismissed this very
basic process to stop covid.

If you put 1000 kids in a school and stir them up all day,

When you went to school did you have contact with the entire
school? I sure didn't.



then put
them on buses and scatter them across the county in no logical orderu

Wow, things must be really more screwed in FL than I thought.
You just load kids on buses and scatter them everywhere in no logical
order?




any meaningful tracking would have to include all of them as a group.
Then you would have to trace all of their friends in the neighborhood
that they don't go to school with and the family.

How many other countries have the level of cross county busing as the
US does, particularly in states that lived under deseg orders for 30
years? Our school bus system logs 12.6 million miles a year shuttling
kids around for 180 days of classes. That is 70,000 miles a day using
over 700 buses. (from the Lee school board web site)



You know, maybe Trump should just pick a day for the whole country
to commit mass suicide. We might as well, it's all hopeless. The
country that won WWII and put man on the moon is incapable of tracking,
incapable of social distancing, incapable of wearing masks. Let;s
all just kill our selves. Or we could look at China, South Korea,
Taiwan, City of Hong Kong, NY, NJ, CT and learn.

This refusal to learn from other countries that are obviously doing better
than we are is what some Trump supporters call 'putting America first.'
It doesn't seem like it's working out very well.

+1

It's just blind arrogance and stupidity.