On 02/11/2019 06:53, harry wrote:
On Friday, 1 November 2019 21:02:03 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/11/2019 17:15, harry wrote:
On Friday, 1 November 2019 14:18:12 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/11/2019 08:46, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 31 October 2019 10:56:12 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 31/10/2019 09:59, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

Yes one issue that has come up though is the method used
to measure the power used. Gass is pretty easy since it
relies on flow,

Gas also varies in energy content, so knowing the volume
metered is not quite enough information to work out what to
bill for. Hence the conversion fiddle factors included in
your gas bill.

but Electricity can be influenced by the phase of the
current draw in the AC voltage waveform, and there have
been questions before on what is the most accurate way
to deal with this aspect.

Domestic meters have historically been quite good at
measuring only the instantaneous real power transfer, and
ignoring reactive currents. How good they are with with
modern loads with poor power factors caused by high
harmonic content (like many small SMPSUs) rather than a
more traditional phase shift is perhaps a more interesting
question.

KWh, KVa and KVar meters (Spinning disk) are/were available.

Were... and the latter two were not typically installed in
domestic settings.
They were installed in commercial locations.

They still are.

They were additionally charged for bad power factor which could
be determined by the difference between Kwh and Kva.

and possibly peak load as well.


-- Cheers,

John.

No, that can't be determined from these meters.

I was not suggesting it can. You (rather pointlessly giving the topic of
discussion) mentioned that commercial users could have kVA / kVAr
metering - but did so in such as way as to imply this was historical. I
was correcting this.

You correctly mention that commercial uses may have to pay more for low
power factors. I simply added that some will also pay (at least
partially) based on peak load. I made no suggestion as to how this was
assessed or metered.

Some may also receive discounts or concessions if they agree to become
part of the Demand Side Response market - basically agreeing increase,
decrease, or time shift their electrical demand on the grid based on
requests by the grid, to help them better manage varying loads and
supplies.


--
Cheers,

John.

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