"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0ad0cfi0wdg98l@glass...
On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 23:52:39 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.z9vdytajwdg98l@glass...
On Sun, 13 Oct 2019 22:16:39 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 21:22:14 +0100, AlexK wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news For example a pulse width modulated voltage, which is only either 0V
or
12V, is still DC.

Its still DC when the direction of the current changes with
an agitating direct drive top loading washing machine.

It's not a steady DC, but the current's only traveling one way.

Not with an agitating direct drive top loading washing machine.

I guess it depends for how long it flows each way. If it's required
to
change direction for the motor to work, it's AC.

In fact its not either and your original question is simplistic.

In spades with universal motors which can be driven with AC or DC.

My question was quite simple,

Mindlessly simplistic, actually, as usual.

what is a washing machine motor driven with?

Electricity, stupid.

You can draw a graph if you want.

I dont.

So you claim to know a lot about them

I made no such claim.

but can't be bothered telling anyone.

Cant be bothered pandering to your pathetic excuse for trolling, actually.

Great. Why are you in here again?

To **** on you from a great height.

and had to be compensated for if you wanted unity PF.

There is no point in the cost of doing that with domestic
appliances.

I know, I just thought that was the only way to remove the
PF
of
any
motor.

The other obvious way is to drive it with the electronics
instead of having it on the mains. Most obviously with
a stepper motor, although that isnt what is used in
washing machines.

Depends what the electronics is as to whether it blocks the
PF?

Its not blocking that matters, what matters in this
context is what the mains sees of the entire appliance.

That's my point. Can PF be seen through a transformer or power
supply?

No it cant with those fancy motors in washing machines etc now.

I thought I'd try to find out a typical power factor for a
domestic
street, so I checked https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

That doesn't show that for domestic streets.

Although it doesn't have power factor measured, I was interested
to
see
that at the current time (3pm Wed 9th Oct 2019), wind power is
generated
one THIRD of the UK's usage. I thought renewables were
pitiful....

Any idea where I can find out what a typical home's power factor
is
nowadays?

Only real way to do that would be to measure
it and its unlikely that anyone does that much.

I thought power companies liked to know these things for
transmission
line efficiency

They don't bother with houses. Just accept
the fact that its never going to be 1.

How come expensive power supplies intended for gaming enthusiasts

What are they powering ?

12VDC devices, such as a large graphics card and CPU.

OK, didnt realise that you meant those desktop PSs.

have good power factor?

They dont.

Its very far from clear that they do.

"Power Factor
This factor is the result of the ratio between effective power and
apparent power, falling somewhere between 0 (worst) and 1 (ideal). Thus,
the higher the power factor the less energy goes wasted back to the
mains
network. Although residential consumers do not have to pay for apparent
power, in order to minimize apparent power usage, the EU standard
EN61000-3-2 states that all switched mode power supplies with output
power
of more than 75W

Thats not "expensive power supplies intended for gaming enthusiasts"

must include a passive PFC converter. In addition, 80 PLUS certification
requires a power factor of 0.9 or more. Some years ago, many PSU
manufacturers used passive PFC in their products. PPFC uses a filter
that
passes current only at line frequency, 50 or 60Hz, so the harmonic
current
is reduced and the nonlinear load is transformed to a linear load. Then,
with the usage of capacitors or inductors, the power factor can be
brought
close to unity. The disadvantage of PPFC is that it attains smaller
power
factors than APFC and requires a voltage doubler for the PSU to be
compatible with 115/230V. On the contrary, PPFC has higher efficiency
than
APFC, something that probably most of you didnt know. But that doesn't
mean PPFC-equipped PSUs are more efficient than APFC ones, since PPFC
units are often based on older designs that cannot compete with the
performance of modern APFC PSUs."

From:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...de,2916-4.html

They're only going to be connected to a domestic supply.

If they do have good power factors, it would be by accident,
not because they are designed to have good power factors.

It would be because of regulations, as per what I quoted above.

Thats not "expensive power supplies intended for gaming enthusiasts"

Yes it is.

Bull****.

If you buy a Corsair PSU (or similar good make) for your desktop PC, it
will have a good high wattage and be able to produce that maximum power
continuously, and simply switch off if you overload it, and also have good
power factor correction.

Nothing to do with gaming enthusiasts, stupid.

They seem to go hand in hand - better built supplies.

Not necessarily with power factor correction.

But buy some cheap **** by Alpine, and you'll find it goes bang if you run
it at over 50% of its rating for very long,

Mine never did.

plus the power factor correction is non existant.

Hardly surprising with the cheaper power supplys
and again, nothing to do with gaming enthusiasts.

- hence business are charged extra for a bad PF.

But houses don't.

This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

You can turn that off

New computer and I forgot.

and it isnt an email, it's a usenet post.

Tell AVG that.

They arent interested.

Well don't tell me because I can't change the way AVG works.

You can certainly change whether it ends up in your usenet posts and
have done.

Then you only needed your first sentence: "You can turn that off"

And I did the other one too. You get to like that of lump it.

You didn't need to say it, all you've done is start a childish
contradiction.

Wrong, as always.