In article ,
"E5I5O" wrote:

No actually my concern lies in the deeper area of cost heating later down
the road. I don't want to put heat to a structure in all honesty for who
knows how many months that would realistically be compared to leaving the
overhead doors open year round. My dad is a good guy but takes too many
short cuts, or over builds stuff as he works! I am not saying that is wrong
for him, but I want to heat this thing! Actually in my field of work, which
is electronics Temp and Humidity is very important. I have worked in wood
and steel shops in the past as well, but in electronics certain heat ranges
and humidity factors are looked at every single day and they have equipment
in such companies that do just that! Of course I really don't want to be so
strict to that but in my mind I am going to spend a lot of time in a garage!
I have business ideas I need the space to work on, I have car products such
as Armor All, spray paint and what not, which can freeze that will be stored
logically in the garage, then I do a lot of my own auto service work (being
trained in the field) and feel having to go out fire up the wood stove
waiting for hours to get the heat going to go out to work is nonsense! I
would rather just have one steady heat source that is on in the winter
months without the hassle and mess of wood or coal! I would like to be able
to paint something without fear of dust produced by these heat sources
ruining something simple like an intake manifold I have spent hours working
on to get clean! Forced air is too costly with heating oil costs as they are
and propane is up there as I use that in my home. Not to mention the air
blowing stirs up too much stuff.

Ok heating elements under the driveway, yeah it is out there a little, but
consider storing your Honda snowblower, repairs to it over a given time
period, and the actually cost the it to begin with! Not everybody makes 5
digit salaries! No offence but hell I only clear on average (currently) ten
thousand a year to begin with! After talking to a close personal friend
having built his own house, he installed this same system in his basement
during construction to a cost of $1500. Not into the driveway mind you, but
the boiler system I referred to. He by trade is a welder, and fitting metal
he ran the manifold system to his boiler. After he showed me the system I
asked him if it would hurt anything it the system was installed under a
driveway. At first he not to unlike you, questioned it. A few months after
winter had started him and I ran into each other at the local store and he
told me that my idea was sound! Further he was upset he didn't think of it
first, here in our New York home, he went on the state that it would have
cost him about $500 more to install the system in the driveway if he had
poured the floor and the driveway at the same time and would have added more
then one time he wouldn't of had to go out and shovel (or actually snowblow
as he owns a snowblower) his driveway. He did say that he had a extra run in
his manifold to do just what I had said and was going to look at installing
the system this spring. Of course the snowblower which I will not knock in
my reality isn't practical for a couple of reasons, first as thing are what
they are I have no place to store it as of this writing. Yeah I could leave
in my yard year in and out like my one tractor as it is too big to fit in my
20 X 24 shed, covering it every year with plastic, to find mice have chewed
the insulation of the plug wires (which has happened to my tractor) off. But
the shed I currently own is divided with one section big enough for my
tools, supplies and lawn mower, and the other hold my camping gear, holiday
decorations and so on. I am by no means knocking what you say, but I feel
storage as I look at it is a price you have to pay honestly!

Actually I like a lot of what you said, as it makes a lot of sense, but in
all I am not as needed as you may think. My dad's practice is basically "who
cares if the top of your one corner wall is six inches from being square as
the building is just a garage!" I am not sure about you, but I really don't
think all the insulation in the world will be worth anything to a building
that isn't square to begin with! Extra gaps logically will cause more warm
air to seep out and cold air to get in. I could further demonstrate what I
mean by my dad's practices, by my shed. He took this same "it's just a shed"
approach to the project the kit came from Grossman's and seemed even with my
lack of construction experience to be straight forward. But when everything
was done while I was learning per his teaching the one large barn style door
was 4" short then the other door on it leaving a huge gap along the bottom.
My lucky stars the thing wasn't built to grade as my yard is flooded every
spring and I would hate to have to de- mud the building if it were to grade.
But again my father's words echo "It's just a shed!" And to that it is just
a shed, I don't have to heat it, I don't have to spend hours out there
working on my car, I don't have to worry about, but my garage I will have to
address these problems, more so in the case of a house without a basement or
other large storage area like I have currently. In all I would like to have
a garage that is big enough that I can maintain three vehicles (one of which
I am planning on building before I die), and still have my daily drivers
safe and warm for the cold weather. I have been around a lot of garages in
my years, And has I have said I have spend many a trip around my local areas
looking at peoples homes as I drive by noticing garages filled with stuff,
that the cars themselves can fit into. I feel storage is an issue, that
seriously is never looked at in garages. My father's basement one car garage
isn't tall enough for his truck to fit in and being the pack rat that he is
(have I mention that I love my dad dearly, he is kind of like Chevy Chase),
can even get his car n his garage either! Even my ex wife's father had his
garage packed with all sorts of "useful" stuff, like ever one of his kids
fake Christmas trees making getting things out the rafters a realy joy when
he needed something! I had also consider and get this putting windows in my
garage....why you may ask? For two reasons, first to allow air to pass throw
the building for ventilation and secondly for light, to help cut lighting
costs in the summer months, and even winter months. Everybody I have talked
to thinks I crazy with that one too!

Sincerely, E5

Nah, not many downsides to having more than one window in a garage.
Other than maybe giving would-be burglars a better outside view of all
the stuff you have in there to steal, LOL.

Like you, I can¹t abide by cut-rate construction practices if the
structure itself suffers somehow (and in your defense, ****ed up is
****ed up; doors should fit and be cut right, for cripe sake), but your
dad¹s garage/shed isn¹t really in the same league as what you want a
garage for. And OK, now you¹re being a lot clearer on the reason why
climate control year-round is such an important issue to you. Before, I
was thinking you just wanted to give the family car or dog a warmer
place to park for the night, or were just an odd sort. But even there, I
still don¹t quite understand your personal reason for dismissing metal
outright because, well, that seems to me to be one of the reasons why
God invented insulation and different kinds of exterior finishing
materials in the first place. After all, there are thousands of people
across the nation living all toasty warm and nicely cool in steel
houses. Matter of fact, I¹ve seen two steel houses, and I wouldn¹t have
guessed they were steel. The exteriors look as normal as the other
surrounding houses made from traditional building materials. Just
because the bones are steel doesn¹t mean the entire place has to be,
too. So really, if steel gets you more bang for the same buck --
especially for someone on a really limited income -- it¹s certainly
worth considering , and then spending the savings on incredibly good
insulation measures and on the curb appeal of the building¹s exterior
and the landscaping surrounding it. With a little thought and ³what if²
creativity, you¹d be amazed at how many regular-homeowner people could
end up making an igloo look pretty tits.

AJS