"I-zheet M'drurz" wrote in message
...
On 08 Jan 2004, Phil Anderson wrote:

Took way too long to find a tester, and it is getting late
so I will give up soon. Here is what I think I see so far.
First, there are a whole batch of white wires off to one
side of the switch box held together with a "nut." I do
not see what they do - they do not connect to the switch.

That's the way it should be. Switches are strictly in the
hot
side of the circuit, you should never be interrupting the
neutral wire with a switch. Bundled whites = good.

Second, there are two black wires twisted together part way
back in the box. This seems to be the source wire, since I
get a neon light with the switch on or off. A third 'jumper'
wire is twisted (poorly) onto those two wires. That jumper
goes into the switch.

Sounds right.

Third, there is another black wire that goes into the
switch that I do not see connected to anything else as I look
deeper into the box. I assume it is the switched wire.

Yes, should be. You can confirm that by seeing your light
track the action of the switch.

Fourth, there is a large red nut just lieing loose in the
box. I will put it over the jumper twist.

Sunds like a good chance that's where it came from, if there
was no nut on that twisted mess.

Fifth, and I am not sure about this right now, there seems
to be a
red wire off in the corner of the box. It does not seem to
be attached to anything, and to just sit there bare. What,
if anything, does that suggest?

Suggests that one of those cables coming into the box is a
14*-3 w/ground (it could be 12-3 w/g, for you nitpickers out
there) which is a piece of romex that carries two 120VAC
circuits. The Black and Red are the two hots, then there's
a White neutral and a bare ground.

Will investigate further
now, but probably will not report back until tomorrow.

I have time for one last followup:

A) Whoever twisted the black wires should be shot. I did
them much better, if not professionally.

B). The red wire is not connected to anything. The bare
end does not like it has ever been twisted or connected to
anything.

That's entirely possible. Not practical, but possible.

Is this something I should be twisting into the
source wire,

!!! NO !!!

on the assumption that from there it goes on
around the room to the outlets that work only when the
switch is on?

No. If it *IS* a live 2nd hot leg on the source
cable, you wil create a dead short across the 240V when you
touch it to the black, blow the breakers, and likely knock
yourself on your ass from the sparks and/or startling you'll
get.

C) That's all for tonight. Hope to have time
to play with the switch tomorrow night, assuming you guys
confirm the red needs to join the twist.

See, that's just it. Not to cop out on you now, but this
literally falls under the category of "I can't see it from
here" and all of the describing in the world can't take the
place of me bing able to eyeball it and start pulling other
cover plates, looking underneath that wall in the basement,
etc. Anything beyond what I'm about to say on the red wire
would be a total guess.

Your report so far says there is only one hot wire leaving
the switch. That means that somewhere in one of the duplex
boxes or maybe even in the light fixture box, the wire for
the outlet loop is attached to the switched hot intended for
the light fixture. That's just plain wrong, unless somebody
actually *wanted* the situation you have now.

Best advice I can give you is to:

a) test the end of the red wire to see if it lights the
tester. If so, it means it's hot. Screw a small (black)
wire nut on it and tuck it back into the box.

b) If by some chance there is no voltage on that empty red
wire, you may want to start pulling the outlets out of the
boxes and looking for a similar red wire in one of them.
Start with he ones physically closest to the switch.

In any case, DON'T connect it to anything until you're sure
where the other end of it goes!

c) If the red wire was cold, AND you found another loose red
wire in an outlet box, then we'll talk. But if not...

If the red wire WAS hot, either just go with your plan to
abandon the switch all together, or spend the cost of an
electrician for an hour to come in and fix it.

Sorry to take so long getting back. It has been a busy weekend,
and I have barely had time to get the switch plate off. The red
wire is definitely NOT hot. NOt sure why, but it seems to me more
likely that if there is a loose red wire on the other end, it will
more likely be at the light fixture. Wherever it is I fear it
will be several more days before I get to look for it. Time seems
an increasingly scarce commodity.

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Phil