On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 11:54:42 PM UTC-4, Arlen Holder wrote:
On 13 Aug 2018 19:18:11 GMT, dpb wrote:

I don't have any experience w/ jet pumps; we're too deep here so
everything is submersible...

You're the second person to mention this, so I should be very clear that
the well itself is 500 feet deep and it has, AFAIK, its own pump at the
bottom.

Clearly I have separate breakers for the well pump versus the booster pump.
They are two different pumps.

The well pump brings up the water and stores it in tanks that are 10 feet
high. The tanks don't develop enough water pressure for the house, so the
booster pump boosts the pressure for the house.

If the booster pump is off, then there is water that just dribbles out the
faucets in the house. They will dribble for 10,000 gallons, but they just
dribble.

If the booster pump is working, then there is water pressure at the house.
Lots and lots of water pressure (a garden hose shoots dozens of feet).

Suffice to say the booster pump has only one purpose and the well pump has
a different purpose.

But, certainly sounds quite probable is a bearing problem and likely
happens only when you irrigate (so far, the rest is coming) because it's
running nearly if not continuously so doesn't have interval to cool down
between.

Yes. That's what I think also.
It could be the pressure switch - but that wouldn't "heat up".
The booster pump would heat up.

Although ... I did put my hand on it when it didn't go on, and it wasn't
even warm. But it's inside at the bearings where it matters most.

Q? is when this happens have you felt for temperature and determined
which bearing(s) are the ones--is it the motor or the pump?

Ah. I just answered that (I respond in line). The pump, surprisingly, does
not feel in the least hot the second time this happened. I was there within
whatever time frame it took for the water pressure to be used up, as I was
using the hose at the same time as the irrigation was on.

SO I was probably fifteen or twenty minutes after the pump failed to go on
(or however long it takes to use up the pressure in the big blue bladder).

I was *surprised* that the pump housing wasn't hot in the least.
SO it might be the pressure switch.

I'm not sure what the gauge is reading because the gauge may be reading the
pressure of the 10 foot column of water that is only a few feet behind the
pump.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5845028pressure08.jpg

So the main thing I have to figure out is what that gauge is trying to tell
me.

Is there a manual thermal reset on the pump or is it one of the internal
bimetallics?

I looked for a red button, but didn't find any.
I think it's internal.

If there's a red reset button, if it had tripped you'd
have to manually reset; if no external reset then it could have tripped
and but would automatically reset once cooled off. If it's getting this
hot that that's happening, it's time...

Yup. I agree. It's NOT getting hot, but I'm not sure I got to it in time.
It wasn't even warm though, and pumps are heavy metal, so you'd think
they'd be a heat sink - so I'm not positive that it thermally reset.

That's why I need to troubleshoot. My only indication that it's the pump is
that I heard a squeal which made me immediately shut the breaker. The
squeal stopped - so it was definitely the pump. But that squeal hasn't
happened again and that was a few days ago where the pump has gone on
hundreds of times for sure since then.

If there's a local shop, and you can work out the schedule, I'd probably
take it to him and let him do the bearings unless you've got the
toolset; we've got a really good local shop and for something like this
he would in all likelihood be able to get it in/out in an afternoon if
scheduled it. If he couldn't, would likely have a loaner or the well
folks should.

I've done bearings before. And I've taken things to a local shop before.
In general, in California anyway, it's not worth the labor at $200/hour.

Bearings are cheap. The problem is that every time I take apart an outdoor
motor, the long bolts are so frozen that they snap. This motor is "indoor"
(it's in a shed) so it may be easier. I don't know. But that's the downtime
issue.

The downtime matters because there is no water pressure while the pump is
out of commission.

OTOH, if it's all as old as you say may be, there's something to be said
for new and at your leisure rebuild the old one and you've got a spare...

That's my plan.
Unless it's the pressure switch.

I have no idea how old it is though.
But it could be the original for all I know.

I think it might NOT be the pump though.
That's why I need to ask how the pressure switch works.

The one thing that perplexes me is that I don't see ANY indication of the
bladder pressure being measured.

It looks like what's being measured is the INPUT pressure to the pump, not
the OUTPUT pressure.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9113867pressure02.jpg

But that makes no sense.
Does it?

Others answered most of the other regarding pieces-parts; there's no
need for the identical motor down to being GE; form factor, HP and
service rating are the key items...

The "frame" is what matters, I think, as long as it's about 1HP and 3450
RPM, which is the easy part. I'm not sure what the "frame" is though.
Is the "frame" on this sticker?
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2105511pressure05.jpg

The first Q? still is to determine whether it's the motor or the pump
with the problem, however.

Yup. The pump appears to have two switches that control it.
a. The water level indicator relay (which is known to be working fine!)
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1279096pressure07.jpg
b. The booster pressure indicator relay (which is a mystery to me)
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5845028pressure08.jpg

The "mystery" is that there is NOTHING coming out of the booster by way of
pressure sensors that I can see.


The pressure sensor is the pressure control switch that you previously called a relay. It has a water pipe connection on it. Those two nuts adjust the cut-in and cut-out pressures.

Now that you described the whole setup, I see why you're calling it a booster pump.




http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5816454pressure03.jpg

The gauge seems to be INPUT pressure, but that makes no sense.
Who cares what the input pressure is.
The OUTPUT pressure is what matters, right?