On Thu, 9 Aug 2018 13:42:42 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, August 9, 2018 at 2:19:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 9 Aug 2018 09:03:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, August 9, 2018 at 10:10:00 AM UTC-4, wrote:
It really is that simple. If you
make N=90, you have the old 90 deg two phase implemented over 3 wires
instead of two.

And what if you make N = 180 deg

How many phases do you have now?

m

Two phases, which is precisely my point. If you have two phases at 90,
two phases at 179, two at 181, then you have two at 180.
It's all consistent. Otherwise there is a "parlor trick" at 180.


I refer to transformers because that is what we use

You keep going off to transformers because you can't explain the simple
circuits and divert to the wilderness.


Everything I say also will apply to a generator winding. You are the
one off in the wilderness talking about things that don't exist.
Transformers and generators are easy to see.

but you can
replace the primary with a rotating field (alternator) and nothing
changes.

That's why I tried to show you how a simple two phase or a three
phase generator source can be morphed into exactly the same thing
as 240/120 but you instead are now making silly claims, like I
can't have two phases without 4 wires. BTW, if I can't have two
phases without 4 wires, what happens in your split-phase motor,
where we have two phases on 3 wires? I morphed the 3 phase into
the service into your house too, but you claim magic happens.
There are still 3 phases when I move one winding to 179 deg, but
at 180, POOF, it's gone! And even more bizarre, you claim that
if I move it to 181, it becomes 179 again? Wow.

It disappears because at 180, you have a straight line with no phase
shift. You can't have any kind of poly phase without a phase shift.


The problem you can't have just 2 phases if they are connected. Until
you understand that we will keep laughing at you.

These folks aren't laughing:

https://www.eeweb.com/quizzes/two-ph...ee-wire-system

https://cdn.eeweb.com/articles/quizz...1430295632.png

What is "Sq/rt 2V" in this diagram but a 3d phase?

The next frame shows it like this
https://cdn.eeweb.com/articles/quizz...1430295633.png

and explains why you never see it.

As compared to 2-phase, 4-wire system (Figure 2), the 3-wire system
suffers from the defect that it produces voltage unbalance because of
the unsymmetrical voltage drop in the neutral.

Source:
A.K Theraja and B.L Theraja. A Textbook of Electrical Technology.
Volume 3. Transmission, Distribution and Utilization. Chapter 41. pp.
1614-1615. [1] Chapter 41.6. pp. 1608. Ram Nagar, New Delhi. 2005.



S L O W L Y

Slowly, transformers are totally unnecessary to create a N phase
power source. Transformers are your diversion into the wilderness.
You keep going to specific implementations of whatever with a transformer
instead of address the simple case WITHOUT transformers, which just
are an additional complication.

I already told you, everything I say still works just fine with
generator windings. Where are you getting your voltage out that pink
unicorn's ass?.

This is what you told me was 2 phase but it is 3 phase delta.
https://myelectrical.com/Portals/0/SunBlogNuke/2/WindowsLiveWriter/WhatisanOpenDeltaTransformer_A776/Open%20Delta%20Transformer_thumb.jpg
It is even labeled as such and if you google delta vee transformer
(open delta etc) you can see 100 other references that look just like
it.

OK, so you have 3 phase going into a transformer and three phases going
out, so what?

With 2 windings and a phase shift.

When you rotate that second winding anywhere off of a straight line,
(zero or 180 angular displacement) this is what you have. If I ground
that line on the bottom of the picture I will have a corner grounded
delta. You now see why I say that looks exactly like a single phase.
In fact that wire would be required to be white if I grounded it.
With me so far?

If I rotate that field to be a straight line, (180 or zero is the same
thing with a semantic difference), poof, you have single phase.
You can call that trig or you can call that ****ing magic, I don't
care but it is true. You can't get to "2 phase" without 2 separated
sources.

BTW you keep talking about 181 degrees. Show me that on a standard
protractor. Mine has 0 and 180, in a straight line.
Most are labeled both ways so 180 = 0.
https://tinyurl.com/y8o2q8w7


Just beyond bizarre. I'm not the only one here who has explained to you
that with AC sine waves, 180 is a sine wave of OPPOSITE polarity. It's
not a sine wave of 0 degrees. If I have two sine wave voltage conductors
of the same voltage:
I can't connect them because you will be shorting two opposite voltage
source together.

All you have really proved is that opposite ends of a voltage source
are at different potential and you can't short them together.