On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 4:52:05 PM UTC-4, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 18:21:16 +0100, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 15:07:32 -0000 (UTC), Wayne Boatwright
wrote:


I'm tired of arguing over this. The 240V wiring in our houses is
prdominately for electric ranges and electric dryers. The 120V
wiring throughout the rest of our houses would not support 240V.

Yes it would. Is it not true that you have double outlets with
120V on each, where neutral to each is actually the centre tap,
and the live to each is opposite ends of the 240V? So you could
remove the neutral and make a 240V outlet right there.

No, it would not. The guage of wire for 120V outlets is lighter
weight and not meant for 240V. 240V outlets have substantially
heavier guage wire.


Wile it is true that we typically have double outlets, both outlets
are fed by a single pair wires coming into the box. There are some
exceptions where there are two pairs of wires, each connected to one
of the outlets. This is usually done so that one outlet can be
controlled by a switch and the other is not, and each is often
connected to a separate circuit. The double outlets are usually
manufactured with copper bands joining the two connecting points on
the sockets. This blows your theory right out of the water. You
obviously don't have a clue asa to how our system works, whether or
not you like the way it works.

Okay, I'm done here!!! Bye...

Thus, every houses would have to be completely rewired and either
additional or replacement power panels would have to be installed
to support 240V for the entire house, not just for the range and
dryer. It's not cheap to completely rewire a house or change out
the power panel. All outlets and switches would also have to be
replaced because they're not rated for 240V. Since I doubt that
you have any intention of moving here, it's rather a moot point.
Nuff said!

As I said before it can be a gradual process. Just like electric
cars and electric charging points, we don't change over from
petrol overnight.

I'm sick of this wilkinson idiot .

And yet you keep on reading my posts. Is this a sign of true love?

However - a small clarification.

Up here in Casnada (and I know from previous discussions on this group
) and some places in the USA an "edison circuit" is used to provide a
"split" receptacle -2 15 amp circuits on a duplex outlet using a
single 3 wire conductor. This used to be a REQUIREMENT under Canadian
code for kitchen countertop outlets.

Why on earth would that be required?

So yes, you COULD theoretically get 240 to a FEW outlets without
re-wiring totally.

Also, the insulation on all CSA approved premise wiring in Canada is
rated for a minimum 300 volts - so you COULD put 240 volt 15 amp to
every outlet and device in the house - BUT the switches and devices
would alkl need tobe changed - and to use the British style outlets
all the boxes in the wall would need to be changed because they are
not big enough to handle the brit ****.

I never said you have to make them look like ours. And I never said you'd need to change all of them at once. I used the word gradual remember?

Much simpler to do what much of the rest of the 240 volt world has
done, and adopt the north american style of wiring, adapting it to
240.

Which is?

The big thing is it would be HELLISHLY EXPENSIVE to do it, and you
would have ALL KINDS of troubles with incompatabilities - and all for
what benefit???????

The main distribution panel would have to be changed in EVERY house.
Every breaker would need to be changed.

Really? Does a breaker care what the voltage is?

Even if they did, you can change a couple at a time.

They do care, because a 120V breaker only contacts one hot.
A 240V breaker contacts two hots and takes two slots in the panel
So, you're going to run out of free breaker slots and need
a new panel. All that expense to solve a problem that only
you think exists.





The light switches may or may
not require changing (some are rated for 277 volts as used for
lighting in some industrial/commercial 3 phase environments)

Switches will work way above their voltage rating if you're not drawing maximum current. I've used a 12VDC switch rated at 10 amps to control a 240V light at 1 amp.


Ain't that special? The village idiot that's bitching because he thinks
we should have a fuse in every plug for safety, now says it's OK to
use equipment beyond it's rating.




Virtually NO benefit.

People who litter their posts with capitals and exclamation marks have OCD!

Your power cords for light duty appliances and
lamps are not going to be smaller than awg18 (about 5.5 or 6mm
diameter jacket for 3 wire (grounded) cords)

At half the current, they are half as thick. I dread to think what your Hoover wires are like.

In industrial/commercial use where advantages exist, higher voltage is
already used for "fixed assetts".

Not to mention there are WAY MORE variations of 240 volt plugs used
world wide than 120.

And magically you'd inherit all those?

How many different plug adaptors do you need to connect a device to
the mains just within the EEC??? At LEAST 5.

Actually I have a couple of adapters on the desk to my left. They will take any plug from USA, Australia, China, EU or the UK, and some others, I think the total was 8 completely different types. They just have some odd shaped holes which are a combination of all the different prong positions. Very handy as I can buy cheap stuff off Ebay from abroad and just plug it straight in.

Word wide there are AT LEAST 20 incompatible versions of the 240 volt
power plug rated at under 17 amps.

EVERY 15 amp 120 volt outlet whether in North America, Japan, or
wherever, is FULLY COMPATIBLE, and will even fit into a 20amp outlet!!

The transmission losses will not change appreciably as the
distribution voltage would not change.

There is just NO CASE TO BE MADE for converting to 240 volts -
particularly with the power consumption of virtually EVERYTHING going
down instead of up.

Please disable your capslock key.

Instead of 100 watt lamps, we are now getting as much or more light
from 17 watts. Solid state flat screen video displays and TVs are
using 1/4 (or less) the power the older versions used.

But there are more things in use that draw power. Think back to when you were a child and had a single lightbulb and a TV set in the room.

The big loads:

Ovens
Range
Stove
Dryer
Central AC
Water heater


They are all 240V and with the exception of the dryer and stove
are direct wired on their own circuits. The dryer and stove have
their own dedicated 30 0r 40A receptacle where they are located.
And where they stay. Unlike the UK, where apparently you move those
around to various other rooms in the house. Go figure.






The ONLY things not taking less power are resistance heating devices
(which are often being replaced with more power efficient devices such
as microwave ovens and induction stove-tops which consume
significantly less power) - and if they are of any size (ovens,
ranges, driers, or central heating devices) they are ALREADY using 240
volts.



And that's about right. Sure we have more devices like tablets, smartphones,
LCD TVs. But they use little power. The reduction with more energy
efficient AC, lighting, TV, furnace blowers, etc has more than offset
the increase in number of appliances.