On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:35:57 GMT, "volts500"
wrote:
But still not as large as the MOCP. The wires aren't derated, they are
sized for the MCA.
Uhm, I never disagreed about sizing them for the MCA, I said you can
not size them for the MCA and then protect them with the MOCP. You
disagreed and pointed to 440.xx and I indicated to you that about four
more sections beyond it stated the over current device should be sized
to 125% of the conductor which does not equal the MOCP on most
systems.
No, REL, like I said it's common knowledge in the trade. Even the strictest
Design Engineers will not require the wire size to be sized as large as the
MOCP. Once the volt drop is accounted for, some Hospital and School, etc.
I indicated all of my feeder work was in hospitals, more specifically
FL which has the additional burden of having HRS rewrite many sections
of the NEC to far more restrictive standards for many applications.
I have no idea why you chose to bring this old settled discussion into
this thread, but now that you have, why not.
Because it fits. The discussion evidently was settled in your
mind.....Grand Puba style. When
two professionals disagree, is not the next logical step step (_IF_ one
really wants to "settle" something) to seek the advice of other
(indifferent) professionals? I believe that a few other professionals in
the group did agree with me, but their comments were seeming ignored, or
buried in the numerous Piranha attacks.
I do not recall the discussion becoming abusive, and I do not believe
I ever attacked you. I certainly may have been real hard headed and
that may have come across. I did seek out information from other
professionals. The ones I contacted were in agreement with me, the
over current device would be sized to the 125% of the conductor rating
and NOT the MOCP. I also pointed you to a request for clarification
that had been submitted to the NFPA.
IIRC, I did
offer to take the discussion to alt.engineering.electrical. Declining to do
so, to me anyway, either shows that you don't want the alt.hvac piranhas
(who can contribute nothing but insults) to see that you are wrong, or is
it that you don't perceive the people in AEE expert enough to settle the
matter? Perhaps some known leaders in the electrical industry at this
website will suffice?:
http://electrical-contractor.net/cgi...i?action=intro
If you don't agree with that, then perhaps you can suggest a 3rd party?
Guy, I could not give one bit of a damn about who sees me make a
mistake, or be wrong. I am a human and I make lots of mistakes, like
entering into this conversation at all. I did so because most of what
I had seen from you in the past had been right on target and you
seemed like a pretty decent, smart guy, that's all. You did not ever
offer to take it to AEE, I do not know if my service even offers it to
me. I thought it was over myself.
OK, then, how hard was that?
Although the relay contacts have already been mentioned, and
the other symptoms are closely related, they count. Let's see, we're down
to 93 out of 100 possibilities. I'll even give credit for a few more that I
may have missed in the count.......so let's make it 90 out of 100. Only 90
to go.
You want a list? I think what is more appropriate is notification to
the person with the problem that there is a reason behind the failure.
Finding the fault is one thing, finding out why the fault occurred is
another. Repairing the fault without correcting the cause will only
result in future faults. I am not sure how many reasons I can come up
with for a motor failing to start with voltage applied, nor am I
particularly inclined to do so.
I should have kept my freakin pie hole shut as the net result is you
think less of me and I think less of you for your reactions. I am
sorry you feel the way you do, it is very likely we could learn some
things from each other, though now it is not likely that will come to
pass.
the other rich