On Thursday, 7 December 2017 13:27:45 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 7 Dec 2017 02:45:41 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip daves bs

If you can;t answer the original Q then don't reply.

are swing doors classed as barriers of some sort.?

What do you think? Can the heat move freely through the doors when
they are closed?

Not according to the fire regs, but the doors are mostly left open, UNLESS there is a lecture going on it that room which happens perhaps 2-4 times a week, or a meeting is there or theres too much noise(audio, drilling etc) coming from that area then we close the doors.

Or today when there's two seperate labs and they don't want the noise from one interferring with the noise from the other set, and this is student noise rather than any other type.




So, as I said previously, the presence of the swing doors may not
impact the calcs if the temperatures are roughly the same on both
side. The chances are that will be more likely when the doors are open
rather than closed.

what about the other two sets of swing doors, which go to unheated corridor areas ?
Studetns have to arrive and leave you know, they don;t just go from one lab to the other for 3-4 years.

There were no tools that were any use unless you can account for those variables.

And you can account for them by going 'worst case'.

To get a false result you mean.
What is the worst case then as far as temerature goes what would you use ?

You haven't a clue about any of this have you.

Did you use the worst case for radiators, what would you say is the worst case output for a 2KW radiator ?


You say John Rumm has given the tools if that is the case why canl;t you use those, can you at least explain that.

Yes, I can, very easily. No. The answer is 'no' because I don't have
the measurements and U values for the construction of your lab.

Neither do I. I'm not going to try measuring the lab using 1 metre rulers either.

And even if I did give you the measurements I doubt that'd help you as yuo;d still come up with excuses.
If you want to know how large the lab is use the video as a guide.

It takes me 21 strides do walk the lengh of lab 253 so about 15 metres from door to door, the width is about 16 strides so about 12 metres, I can walk up to the ceiling, but I;d say about 2.5 metres.

Now see if you can work it out then.

Of course you'll now come up with loads more excuses.





\You;re excuse is that yuor not going to help, isn;t it,

How many times have I told you that if you do the bit that only you
can do, 'we' might be able to help you.

So what do you need to know? the video is there, I doubt they had even built the building when they quoted for the heating as that was done from an older building.




in reality it means yuo can;t help,

In reality you are right. (see above).

snip more of daves bs


So what's the next of your excuses ?


Well Sherlock, if you are saying that is what one windows actually is
then size then that would be a start. Then we need to know if it is
single / double / triple glazed and we can make a stab at it's thermal
properties.

I don't know those properties other than it is triple glazed.

So you know it is triple glazed but can't find a way to work out how
big it is?

What do you mean by how big do you mean each frame or the entire installation.
The windows span the lengh of teh lab except the last meter, why they breezeblock the last one off I don't know and wasn't expecting them to.

Your next excuse will be how many frames and what wood and thic=kness are the frames.



Previously the windows were single galzed and I;ve no idea ofm the original design for calculating the heatign system ahad single glazed windows were even included in the original design or not.

Irrelevant to what you are trying to do now.


It;s relivant because during the time those single galzzed windows existed the heating system wasntl up to keeping the lab warm i.e above 20 unless it was in the summer, which wasnt; a lot of use as they studetns aren;t here for the majoroty of the summer.


The windows also havent been sealed yet and I don't know how much differnce that makes, I can hear the person in the next office NOT through the walls but through where the windows meet at the edges.

That would make a big difference ... and something you might have
mentioned sooner.

would it really make a difernce if so how much because the heaters were order BEFORE the windows were even installed.


I can't sort of predict how many students will come through the door,

It doesn't matter for the ball park figures.

I can;lt predict how often the builders will leave teh exteranl doors open or for how long during the day or night.

Presumably that won't be happening indefinably?

Construction is planned to finish around April although the foirst estimate for the lab was August, that why we weren;t originally too worried we were told that if teh lab was too noise we would be moved out, and the temeratire wouldn't be a problem as it was summer time and we wouldn;t need any heating.


As I've tried to expain there are too many variables of which I have no control overv and one of the biggest is the weather.

Understood ...

at last.

but you haven't even offered the information up for
those things you can measure. And as far as the weather goes, again
you calculate for the typical worst case. If the heaters can get the
lab(s) up to 20 DegC in one hour

But they can;t can they which is why I need to know how many I would need.
Today at 3:30pm it was about 20C which I think is fine, but the heaters have been on full since 8:45am, and this is one of the warmest days.

5 mins ago the contruction workers came over in their hi-viz and hoody tops saying we;ve heard it cold in the lab, but it doesn;tl feel that cold.
\Now why do you think they were sent over oon the warmest day in the last 2 weeks, why didn;t they come over when it was 13C at 9am and 15C at 5pm ?




So, are you going to carry on running away or start wandering around
with a notebook and tape measure?

Niether the lab manager is sending offical complients to managment.
But I know nothing much will happen.




Prove it then.

OK, I get that you don't have the first clue about any of this but
rather than continuously arguing and trying to catch me (and others)
out (that will never happen),

I'm not catching anyone out I'm trying to get you to understand the very basics in the real world.

If you can;t handle the real world then show me how to calculate what would be needed for a particualr size room about teh size of teh lab or any size YOU choose.
I don;t know what type of wood the frames are made of and I didnl;t know the properties of teh sort of plasterboard that covered the windows, adn I don't know the details regarding how much heat scafolding can have as shown in googlemaps.