On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 08:50:03 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

No, really? So why don't they print a graph on the side, showing the
power consumption over a range of voltages?

Why don't you ask the suppliers , maybe you should contact sales and ask them.

I don't need to mate because unlike you, I know the answer.

So why don't they print such a graph ?

Because it would be overkill. Those who understand don't need one and
those that don't wouldn't understand it.

snip

And this is why you think we get 1300W isn't it when in reality it's closer to 1KW.

I don't think you get 1300W. I'm describing the arbitrary setting on
the rad.

snip

Because it isn't the real world it's just *your* real world.

and that is where the heaters will be so that;'s why you have to use those stats for the calculatoins

The heaters aren't involved in the heat loss calculations.

if you want to work stuff out, in the same way you'd have to account for the weather conditions,

Yes, and already covered in my previous efforts to help you.

snip witterings

unlike you who seems to think that during this situation when yuo;re getting less power due to a volatge drop the solution is to select 1300W to get more heat.

Because you may actually get more heat ... for reasons you don't have
the brains to comprehend.

Then prove it.

I can't 'prove it' because you won't do the tests.

Or tell you why you think the overheat protection comes in so quickly before the room is up to temperature, but you've missed that emtirely haven't you.

You poor, dumb fcuk. I've explained it over and over and forwards and
backwards and you still don't even have the vaguest clue do you. If
you spent more time trying to actually take it in and less time
complaining, whining and crying you might actually learn something.

snip

Let me try to explain it to you in one word. 'Wheelspin'.

what about wheelspin, are yuo saying the best cars use wheelspin to win, I've not noticed Lewis Hamalton going on about how wheelspining won a race for him.
Do yuo think skidding is also a good approach to winning.

Whoosh. I didn't mention skidding, I didn't mention racing, I just
mentioned wheel spin. If you put more power into a system than it can
handle then something has to give. With a car the driven wheel will
lose traction and spin. With an oil filled rad it will trip the
overtemp stat.


snip

(hence the fans we are given, these things you think are fan heaters.

Yes, of course I do. Hey, what do you call the resultant when you
place say ... a fan ... in front of say ... a heater?

No idea,

snip

I didn't think you would.


snip

The one I have here in the lounge you mean ... or the one you have at
home or in your lab ... you know, any heater that can dissipate heat
without cycling.

So not the ones in the lab them.

No, they are fine ... Yes, of course the ones in the lab!


can you poin tto one so I can get estates to buy one, or however many you think we'll need.

Any panel heater with a large enough surface area such that it can
stay on full and not cycle (on the overtemp stat).

Brillant at last so which ones are those I told you that all 6 of 6 cycled.

You did? Even the 1.5 or 1.6 (whatever they were) did on full power?
What about on position II?

I told you from day one that they were crap £25 !

And I agreed with you!


maybe two cheaper heaters set at an input level
they can actually dissipate continuously.

and where do you get this sort of info from.

Science mate.

What qualifications to you have in science you don;t even know about teh properties of heaters or anything esle.

Whatever qualification I have must be 1,000,000 times better than
yours. Really, your knowledge of anything seems dire. In fact I think
you are just trolling as no one could really be this dumb. ;-(


what I have is a car that cuts out whenever it gets to 200MPH it;s spec as being able to travel at 200MPH but when it gets there after a short time the speed drops to 70MPH.

Yup, same as what I said. A car that isn't able to maintain full power
for whatever reason.

and that is the best car is it, that is the car yuo;d buy a 200MPH car
that can only really be run at 130 at best and if you try to get 200 it sends you back to 70 MPH,

Yes, that's exactly what my mini radiators do, just like your bigger
ones.

what have yuo brought a 2CV with a speed stripe on it.

No stripe mate, just a small low powered and cheap rad that is
overpowered for it's surface area.

Clad my aston martin one-77 doesn't do that.

I'm sure it doesn't. You couldn't even pass a driving test!

snip bs

when would you xpect any safety mechanism to take efect ?

When it was overheating.

Why & when would it overheat then ?

Why, because it's combined elements create more heat energy, even on
dangerously reduced voltage than the radiator can dissipate without
getting too hot itself.

When ... when it gets too hot.

How long would yuo expect to be able to leave such a heater on before it overheated ?
5 seconds 10 seconds....

Before I experienced it happening. Never. Since I have experienced it
happening, maybe 10 minutes.



p.s. We currently have the choice of *two* 450W mini oil filled rads,
or *one* 600W slimline panel.

The two mini rads have been on full since about 9 this morning and
it's only just reached 20 DegC in here now. The slimline panel would
have had it up to 20 DegC much quicker.

I wonder why that is the case ... ?

Maybe the two cheaper 450W heaters have a cut out desinged to cut out when the power disapation reaches 150W, or that they cut out because the surface area of the rad. is two small to disapate the required heat generated.

Brilliant! Take two gold stars!

See can tell a crap heater .... you can;t

I can't without experience of them and when they are in the box, no, I
can't. Just like you couldn't tell till you plugged them into a power
monitor and saw them cutting back to 700W.

otherwise yuo wouldn;t have wasted good money on buying 2 crap heaters

I didn't waste my money because they do what I want in most cases and
will do what I want in all cases (better than anything I can buy off
the shelf) when I've finished with them. When they are in a big room
they don't heat it fast enough on a very cold day and they are too
noisy for the bedroom.

was in at a car boot sale.

No, they were in a Homebase sale.


That's what happens when you buy cheaper heaters they are less efficint than something thqat has been designed properly did you not know that.

I did ... now you do too. I hope that will save any more stupid
unanswerable questions from you now!

I wouldnlt buy such crap heaters in the first place,

The thing is, you don't have the brains to deal with what you have
been given to get the best out of them.

eg. If you found the 2kW heaters didn't cycle when on the 1.3kW
setting and two of those were only 60 quid, you would be getting a
2.6kW heater for less than the price of a quality single 2.6kW heater
(that didn't cycle on full) and so better VFM.

I asked for ones with timers on too, too expensive though.

And more unreliable and pointless (as you turn the power off every
night).


snip

and these 2KW heaters that don't work even when using them on a 202V supply.

Well they do work (as 2kW heaters) but only for a couple of hours from
cold and on your crap supply.

On the proper volatge they would have gone into over temp much sooner.

Very good ... have another two gold stars (One for the correct
understanding of the 'proper voltage' (at last) and the other for
knowing it would cause it to overtemp quicker)! ;-)

Which I assume you'd think is ideal if you arrive in a room at 14C and you need it to be 16C minium ASAP use a heater that will reach it's maxium output within 20mins and tehn switch from 2KW to 700W, brillant idea.

You said it was 2 hours?

But 1) I didn't specify the heaters, 2) I didn't order the heaters and
3) I'm not the one NOT now trying to get the best out of the heaters.

And you know what 'assumption' makes ...?




If a 2KW radiator cuts off and can only be used at 700W or 1300w or 1500W then it isn't a 2KW heater is it.

1) It is for a period of 2 hours you told us.

No I told you it was about 20 mins,

And like I told you, you have to have a good memory if you think you
can lie and get away with it:

"So if this heater is left on its doen;t produce 2KW of heat it
doesn't consume 2KW of electrical power it drops to 700W so
effectively a 700W heater after two hours NOT a 2KW heater which is
what most would assume as it's written on the box and the unit."

'Sorry' would be the right response to that dave.

I only nociced it after a couole of hours when I went to check to see why the MCB hadn't tripped it was due to trip after 2.7 hours (from the graph) accodring to the data sheet if we were pulling 5 x 8 amps =40 for a 32A MCB.

That's not what you said above though eh.

ANd that is why I used my maplin power meeter adn found that the first 3 heaters I checked werentl; running at 1.3Kw or 1.7Kw or 1.8Kw or 2KW but 700W, and teh indicatoirs on both switches indicated that both elements were ON.

Yes, they may well be on, it's the overtemp stat that seems to only be
connected to the 1300W element that has cut it out.

Which if you had any sense you'd assume that meant that both coils were giving out heat,

No, having sense and 'assuming' aren't the same thing.

and because the lable on the heater said 2000W you assumed that it would be using 2000w of electrical power when in relaity it was only use 700W.

Nope. I would have assumed it would use 2kW until it overheated (if it
was going to) and then it dropped back to 700W for some strange reason
(I would have expected 0W).

Now, can you get back to measuring one of the labs so we can get on
with doing something useful please?

Cheers, T i m