On Saturday, 2 December 2017 10:41:25 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 07:58:58 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

snip

I said nothing about stoping, what's wrong with reducing cycling. ?

Because it means the heater won't be on, will be cooling down, so
giving off less heat.

Just what we want in a cold lab,

That's good as that seems to be what you've got. Luckily *you* are
monitoring it all and know all the answers (not).

I know far more than you do yes.




a heater that gives off less heat,

Yup, but that's what you want.

It's not what I want, I didn't choose them.




you should apply for a job in admin,

I'd rather get a job in HR,

same thing here.

sack you (for incompetence) and employ a
monkey instead.

you applying for the job them ?


as I said they have just sent us two new 1.5KW heaters after we;ve said that teh 6 x 2KW

That are actually (potentially, when you tell us the complete duty
cycle) only 1350W heaters ...

But sold as 2KW heaters, if you wanted a 2KW heater is this what you'd buy



and 3-4 1.5KW

That could actually be 1.5kW heaters (once you do the tests).

They could be 100W heaters too, and I'm not planning on running any tests.


that have been on in the lab since 8:45an have just managed to raise the temperature from 13C to 15C

How does that compare against the thermal calculations for the space?

No idea. I don't do such calculations.



We have told them that we are in danger of triping our circuits.

Because 6 x 2kW (when on) *will* draw more current than 6 x 1.5kW and
so more likely to trip the supply.

So the 6 X 1.5KW draws more current than 6 X 2KW heaters.



Perhaps the 32A MCB was designed to run at 40 amps.

It is.

So what's the problem with us running it at 40amps.

None, till it trips ... or some weak link gives elsewhere.

So no problem then is there.


So there's no way of imporving efficieny by say having more fins or larger surface area.

Yes, but that's not an option is it.

Would be if we brough decent heaters rather than this crap.\

Quite, but you haven't, and you don't seem interested in cutting your
losses and seeing if there was a more effective way of using the
heaters you have been given (because you are too stupid to
understand).

Therere is NO more effective way, only yuor dream world wehere turning them down supplies more heat.




The two I have just installed are so cheap that rather than supply 4 wing nuts they suply two the other end of the U brackets has been bent over.

But that's how they were designed so you should be happy with that?

I'm not happy being given crap underspec stuff that might only work on paper.




The only way you can get close is
to give it less power which has the same effect of giving it more fins
/ larger surface area.

No it isn't, have you ever studied physics, or even heat sinks.

This should be funny ...!

What you do is pass colder air over it,

Oh, turn it into a fan heater! I thought they weren't allowed?

Fan heaters aren't allowed, i.e we are NOT allowed to buy or use fan heaters, fans are alowed (yuo know the sort used in summer to keep you cool), there differncies did you not know that.
Do I need to explain to you the differncies.



that;'s how PCs cool there processors down,

No? Really?

Yes really.


Hey, my server doesn't have any fans on the CPU,

I don't give a **** what your servers do or don't do.
Not that I mentioned servers so why did you ?




chipset
or case so are you saying that is going to overheat sometime (to be
fair it's only been on about 5 years now)?

A few years ago after christmas the IT person had to borrow my hair dryer to warm the servers up as they;d been switched off over xams and the temerature had dropped to 5C.



they could do as yuo suggetd turn down the electrical power to the processor so it doesnl;t get so hot but then the speed decreases.

And now you are (without realising it of course because you are so
stupid), saying *exactly* what I am saying. If you turn the
*overpowered* heater down from ~2kW to ~1.3 kW, you may find the rad
doesn't 'overheat' and therefore work better without 'throttling'.

I do NOT condiderthat working better perhaps you do.
Do your servers worked better if you lower their CPU speed.
I see you still a bit challenged at maths where's this 1.3KW coming from.




How would lowering the mains voltage save anything if your using oscilloscopes, signals gens PC's and other SMPSs ?

It wouldn't ... that's why I (and others) think it's snake oil.

Me too, but it was a managment decision and they are alkways right, even when specifying auto lights for toiulets that are left on 24/7 longer than any other lights that used to be switched on and off as wanted.

Just like managment at grenfell tower.




Just like installing auto on/off lights in toilets, and then peole complain about walking into darkened toilets after 6pm.

Then again, I suggest they haven't been installed properly. My mates
office has such all over the building and the lights actually light up
like a wave in front of you, including in the toilets.

How do they do that pour sensors are INSIDE the toilets not outside.

Maybe it;s lijke theose office blocks that are lit up at night, but they don't wasnl;t power either do they.



why isn't it, if 240V is the standard voltage ?

Because we live in a world that uses different standards?

snip voltage witterings

The idea was that we'd come into line with europe rather than stay at 240V






If we wanted 1.2KW we'd have brought cheaper 1KW or 1.5KW heaters rather than 2KW heaters.

You said you had bought some 1.5kW heaters, or were you lying again?

we were given them yes and another two today.

So you were lying then? Remember, to be a good liar you need to have a
good memory (and you obviously don't).

I said that at the beginning you've just forgotten.


And 'we would have bought' and 'we were given' ... You had no part to
play in the buying so it was just what you were given.

At ****ing last.

So, if you were
actually interested in making the best of what you were given, you
might try some (more) of the things suggested to you.



I do NOT know who chose the heaters all I know is it wasn't me or the lab manager or anyone in this building.

Pixies?

**** knows, it wasn't ANYONE in the building that is cold.

But we had a visit from in chage of buildings today, seems liimke their attitude is changing they are now thinking of moving us to another floor.




the test I did was in my closed office and I stared it during my lunch hour when my office is mostly closed to students.

What if people spilled something and needed to get a mop or bucket?
;-)

No idea I don't care we have cleaners for that.
same as we have electricians to do the electrical work we employ outside contractors, just like we have with those that have put the windows in now, meant to be done before the start of term.
It's not my job to install windows either on a PC ort in buildings.

What test? Where are the results? Did the ~2kW rad cycle on setting II
and if so what was the duty?

**** knows I don't care.
Why buy 2KW heaters that cycle on 1KW?
I wouldn't be that stupid.


It would actually be
'better' to see if the rad *does* cycle in time.

And if it did what then ?

Then you could determine the more (or most) effective way of using
them.

I don't give a ****. They are a product that should work as specified.
if they don't it's becuase they are faulty or cheap ****.

Would yuop buy a 2GHz computer that was fine for 20mins then cycled back to 700KHz, so you'd downrate it and select it to run at 1GHz.

I wouldnl't, I would not accept such a product obviously you would.




I'd like to see the real world calcualtions for that before I complain that theree;'s not enough heating

And have you done that yet?

yes since 1983 or there about.

And they are? What heating input does your lab need to get it to 20
DegC in one hour when it's 0 DegC outside?

I've no idea, maybe you can tell me.
Al, I know is that those that desinged it told those here in the late 50s that it would work and those in charge ignored the warnings save money.

The problem was known about before the building was even put into use.

when I first came here it was well known that the heating was insufficent.

But NOW all the heating has been ripped out so there was NO heating what so ever nothing not a single watt of heating to the building.