In article , Mark
wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 16:59:35 +0100, James Harris
wrote:

On 02/10/2017 15:31, Mark wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 15:24:17 +0100, James Harris
wrote:

On 02/10/2017 15:14, Mark wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 14:43:57 +0100, James Harris
wrote:

On 02/10/2017 14:12, pamela wrote:
On 13:04 2 Oct 2017, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 02/10/17 12:01, pamela wrote:


The negotiation is not just the part where we sit around a table
and banter with one another over tea & biscuits then leave with
handshakes and smiles. Everything is part of the negotiation
and that includes walkouts, threats, brinkmanship, partisan
voting, off the record briefings and so on.

Yes, thats how amateurs negotiate, Business men establish first
that they are not dealing with idiots, and play the game mostly
straight. It saves time and money

The EU aims to win by fair means or foul. The British aim to win
by only fair means.

Who is most likely to win? I'm not asking whose conscience is the
clearest.

Do we want a good deal or not? Are we going to wise up to the
EU's tactics or are we going to moan about the unfair way Johnny
Foreigner played and won the game?

A fair assessment. I would add that the goals are different. The EU
has stated that from their point of view Brexit has to cause
diminishment. I believe them.

Another good reason not to leave the EU.

Sure. Anyone that bullies us should be given in to. No doubt about it.

No, staying in the EU is not giving in.

If we had chosen to stay then I would agree with you. But when the
sequence is:

FSVO "we"

1. We are going to leave 2. Then we'll make choices to ensure you are
worse off 3. OK, we'll stay.

Then that's being bullied.

The referendum was very close and recent polls show that the tide has
turned.

--snip--

Consider that when the Scottish parliament was set up and went off on
its own Westminster was generous to it (probably too generous), helped
it get on its feet, and wanted it to be a success. Of course,
Westminster was, to quote your words, "in a stronger position". But
Westminster's /attitude/ was not bullying. It was a positive, helpful
one.

I think they are too generous in this. Scotland can afford to do things
in Scotland that we don't get in England.

But, it seems as though their NHS is suffering as a result.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England