In article ,
says...

On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 10:37:55 PM UTC-4, RonNNN wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 9:33:42 PM UTC-4, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 09:29:15 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 9:17:03 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/9/2017 4:24 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 20:03:26 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 10:40:53 PM UTC-4, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 21:46:08 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/8/2017 8:58 PM, Vic Smith wrote:


No it's not misinformation. Anybody who's ever replaced a heater core on GM vehicles that
I know of, know that the core has an inlet and outlet and no valves restricting flow.
It's the job of the mixer door to adjust heat in the cabin. There are some vehicles that
have heater water valves, but I haven't worked on them.
And their is no "extra" heat.
Engine designers can't eliminate waste heat until they design one that's 100% efficient.


It has been probably 40 years since I played with heater cores, but I do
know there was a valve in the line to stop the flow. Maybe thing have
changed?

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...hard-zeppetini

Google heater core valve and then click on images.

This is GM specific
https://www.google.com/search?q=heat...w=1366&bih=638

Like I said, "There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked
on them." I've owned only Chevy cars and one van, and a Grand Am since about 1975.
NONE of them had a heater valve. Nor did my 1966 F100 Ford PU, or 1973 Dart.
Pretty sure you'll find that cars without heater water valves are as common as Chevys.

Maybe you just need to look harder?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HVAC-Heater-Control-Valve-Heater-Valve-Front-4-Seasons-74603-/272744018440?fits=Make%3APontiac|Model%3AGrand+Am& epid=75725794&hash=item3f80cf7208:g:BhoAAOSwq7JUAT Wl&vxp=mtr

If you give us the year for the vehicles in question
we can look at accurate part info. But just googling
for Pontiac Grand Am, looking on Ebay, etc obviously
at least some of them used heater valves.

I'll repeat, "There are some vehicles that have heater water valves, but I haven't worked
on them." Here's my Pontiac. 1995 Pontiac GT. 3.3 liter engine. Good luck finding the
non-existant heater control valve. My 2003 Chevy Impala with the 3.4 likewise.
Won't bother naming all the vehicles I've had with no heater control valve. All of them.
A valve on a heater hose is too obvious to miss for anybody who works on their engines, and
hose maintenance comes with the territory.
I see the '66 F100 came equipped with one, but it was gone before I personally removed
the 352 ci engine twice, replacing all hoses once. I never missed it.


Sorry Vic, but I found it in less than a minute. Please, stop it. Cars
have heater valves. Exception being air cooled engines. My Corvair and
Karmen Ghias did not have them.

https://www.google.com/search?q=1995...X9v7JjSEMp7iM:

I was trying to look up the specific part at part
stores, but didn't get past that there is no 1995 Pontiac GT. Was that a Firebird Transam GT or
something? I think you have to be careful with just general google searches because a lot of time
they come back with hits for aftermarket things
you could add, ie generic extra widgets, that are
not part of the car.

From some other googling, I found at least one
place that said that some cars do have the system
these guys are talking about, where they just
modulate the air flow and don't control the coolant
flow. That kind of design doesn't make any sense
to me for the reasons cited. But I still doubt
Clare's position that the vast majority of cars
are built that way now. Also, IDK what exactly
"now" means. If this big shift has occurerd, I
think it has to be only in much more recent years,
not back in 1995. The designs I've seen, the air
flowed through both the heating and cooling cores
and the coolant through both cores mas modulated
by valves according to need for heat or cooling.

I should be more careful with you guys. Although I mentioned Grand Am above,
I foolishly later said 1995 Pontiac GT. And you actually looked for a Pontiac GT.

Well, WTF do you expects? We can't de-cypher your word salad.


Well, you need to use the model when looking for parts. Like 2003 Chevy Impala.

No **** sherlock. That's what I told you, that when I went to
look for a part, there was no 1995 Pontiac GT. Geez!

And note that you still can't clear up WTF car you're talking
about. "I earlier said Grand AM" "Then I said Pontiac 1995 GT"
And yet you still don't spell out the specific model clearly.


A very common car, which also doesn't have a heater control valve.
Anyway, since it appears you guys don't want to learn anything that's not in your
experience, I'll just bow out.

We don't want to learn anything? I posted link after link, so
did Ed of heater control valves for all kinds of cars. Again,
the fact that most BMWs, probably all current models have heater control
valves and that the Honda Accord, a very popular, typical car
has them in current models was just shown to you, yet you
don't even acknowledge that and address nits instead.

For the record, now that you provided accurate info, I went
and looked and I agree, I don't see a heater valve for a
1995 Pontiac Grand Am. But it hardly proves the point that
Clare claimed, that most modern cars don't have them,
or your point that they were disappearing decades ago,
because while you've provided one car, I've provided a whole lot
of current cars that still have them. And I agreed several
posts ago that it looks like some cars don't use them.
It still makes no sense to me, compared to the valve design
for the reasons stated.

Ditch the shovel before it's too late. Bite the bullet and accept the
fact that you don't know jack about automotive climate control systems.

--
RonNNN

Clearly I and Ed have provided the links that show many modern cars have heater control valves, that they are very common.
That is directly opposite to what Clare claimed. How is that
shoveling? And now you want to claim that IDK about auto
climate control systems? I know how they work and I know
that modern cars still have them. I even pointed out that I don't
see why an auto manufacturer would want an always hot heater
core inside the car, to fight with the AC system. Even if
there is no air movement through it, it's still a hot box
at 210F all the time. And those half-assed flaps never achieve
anything close to 100% air closure. I didn't see any of you
alleged HVAC experts discussing that or explaining why a
design that relies on an acutator to block off hot air from
a constant hot box, is a better design than a simple valve
to regulate the hot water. Why would you want screw around
with air flow rate when it's air temp that you want to regulate?

BTW, since your such an auto genius, what's one of the steps
that's included in most, probably every service manual I've
ever read, when refilling the car cooling system after it's
been drained. They tell you to set the heat to high. Maybe
Clare can explain why that is, if there is typically no valve
in the heater flow circuit? Or you other geniuses who pretent
they have been designed out? Where are your links? Crickets...

This is so typical of those of you losing arguments. Provide
no links, no facts and then start the ad hominem attacks.

Consider dual climate control systems. Do you think there are two heater
cores and two evaporators in those cars? (I'm not talking long vans and
such that have front and rear air and heat) No, the air flow is
controlled by doors directing airflow, not hot water control of
refrigerant control. Just because you are stuck in the past doesn't help
you.

You remind me of all the idiots that think reading books equate to
knowledge. You really should take the words of those with hands on
knowledge above what you *think* you know.

And as far as refilling the cooling system, some have two vents that need
to be opened to prevent vapor locking when refilling.

--
RonNNN