Rod Speed wrote:


"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/09/16 13:59, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I think one of the hardest things in history is to try to understand
what people thought of Hitler in the 30's. I'm sure he considered
himself to be something of a socialist, as least as far as native
Germans were concerned. Less so when it came to his plans for the
disabled. People didn't seem to be so keen to distance themselves from
his ideas then. But cleverer people than me seem still unable to
understand what happened - I don't think I really have much of a
chance,
try as I might

Most people regarded Hitler as a lot better alternative than Communism
or Bolshevism, which had destroyed Russia and its ruling class.

At that time Communism was seen as part of 'the Jewish conspiracy' to
foment dissent and wars and make profits out of it. Anti-Semitism was
pretty rife, not helped by the clannishness ghetto-isation and refusal
to integrate of the European Jewish communities.

It was only when he developed delusions of Empire, invading his
neighbours, that people got upset.

They were very happy to see him and Mussolini trounce the commies in
Spain and Italy.

It was a pair of Italian communists that drew up the EU manifesto of
course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventotene_Manifesto

Anyway, the point is simply this. More than a few people were more or
less anti semitic - suspicious and distrustful of Jews, and so that part
of Nazism wasn't seen as more than just a bit politically extreme. The
Anti- Bolshevik sentiment was widely applauded, as was the patriotism
and nationalism. Only when various political figures started getting
murdered, and other countries started getting invaded did people begin
to wonder, and then of course it was too late.

I don't think you can get close to understanding the whole thing unless
you spend time reading the causal literature of the time, and forming
your own opinions on the attitudes and ideas of the people then, rather
than taking the view of some historian - who perforce must needs
introduce a 'new perspective that informs' in order to make his career.

I can fully understand why people supported Hitler. And why people
support Corbyn.

And why Lefty****s are ****s.

I don't excuse it though.


I thank you and Fredxxx for your responses. I could talk about this
sort of stuff all day, but I don't think usenet is a great way to deal
with it.

You've clearly both studied more than me, yet I still maintain that
/for most people/, Hitler's success is something of a mystery. The
very mention of the name is too loaded for people to not believe that
he tricked his way into power. Yet it is clear that he did not. One
only has to watch Eva Braun's home movies at Berchtesgarten to see
that that these are people who do not believe that they are in any way
evil.

Neither did Eichmann or Himmler and they were anyway.

I think it's worth mentioning the paralysis induced by Germany's
system of proportional representation as a major factor.

Yes, that was certainly the reason why there was no majority govt
and why Hindenburg chose to appoint Hitler Chancellor.

There was one NSDAP founding member (whose name I can't remember)

Strasser.

Bingo! Thanks. I'll try not to forget the name again. An important
fellow, I think.

who, when asked what they stand for, simply said 'the opposite of what
there is today'.

And that is a pretty succinct statement of what the NSDAP was about.

I think many people feel that right now, especially in the US.

I'm not convinced that it all that many today.

The hyperinflation of 1923 has been mentioned, but this was got under
control when required

That is a separate matter to why some certainly did support Hitler.

But I think that as late as 1928, the NSDAP were only getting 4% of the
vote. Something much more significant happened in the next few years
(The Great Depression, I expect, and maybe other things). I'm not
arguing - you know your stuff - but if I don't ask, I don't find out :-)

(I think it was allowed to run away in order to obfuscate the value of
the currency at a time when they were paying reparations),

Yes.

and I'd be surprised if it was still a motivating political factor ten
years later.

It clearly was.

The Great Depression, OTOH, certainly was.

As for the anti-semitism, I think I read that even Jesse Owens was a
last-minute stand-in for a Jewish athlete whom the Americans chose not
to send for fear of upsetting Hitler. It's also odd that previously,
Germany was something of a haven for Europe's Jews.

It was indeed.

But I don't know. Before WW2, there seem to be no great surprises in
what happened. Afterwards, it seems hardly credible. Anyway, I'm
wittering now :-)