On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 23:00:55 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 22:20:23 +0100, "James Wilkinson"
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 21:05:08 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 19:25:56 +0100, "James Wilkinson"
wrote:

snip

Yes, I didn't pay them.

Hmmmm ...

I've already paid them as part of my Council Tax.

Well (probably) sort of. You have paid for the ability to dispose of
such waste at the local refuse centre but you haven't paid to have
that sort of waste *collected** (for free).

I've paid to have all waste collected.

Yes, all 'household waste'.

I even sort it into different coloured bins for them.

Yes, all your 'household waste' inc 'recyclable waste', NOT *any
waste*.

Waste created not through a business. So yes it's household waste.

Where would you draw the line ... anything you could cut up and get in
you general waste bin *you* would consider 'quite reasonable'?

If it's not covered by one of the recycling bins, then yes, I put anything in there.

;-(

The council are paid to collect what I throw away (hell I can't think of another single thing the council does with my money), I do the sorting they ask, I won't do more than that.

Other people (for some strange reason) have the responsibility of
taking that sort of thing to the tip themselves, or *paying* the
Council or another party to take it away for them. I'm guessing you
would consider them 'mugs'?

Indeed.

Thought you might.

Why pay for what you don't have to? Do you buy music too?

If they want it separated, they can do so, but not at my expense.

No, *they* want it separated for *you* and *your family* and if it's
*your* waste then do you think *we* should pay (extra) for *you*?

It's not for me. It's for the landfill site, which isn't mine.

So, when you 'throw things away' it's to a different planet?

It's disposed of by the Council, which is paid to do this by me and everyone else who lives in this area.

Yes, the cost of collection and disposal of your *household* waste is
covered by your council Tax, *not* the brick wall you took down and
'lost' in the bottom of the bin over several weeks (like a scene out
of the 'Great escape'). ;-)

No need to put that in there.

Oh, why not?

Too much hassle to pile it up and stick it in the bin over many many collections. Easier to take it to the skip in the car or on my neighbour's trailer.

They have a rubble skip at the dump.

That normally also takes larger quantities of glass and ceramics.

Glass is collected in my blue box.

Takes too long to put that in the green bin.

So that's one of your determining factors re doing 'the right thing'?

About the only one.

How they do that is not my concern.

But the cost of should be your concern otherwise 'the rest of us' are
having to cover you (if you are 'abusing' a service that you should
either deal with yourself or pay for then it is an abuse).

It's a flat rate no matter how much I use it, just like I don't try to save bandwidth on my internet connection, or try to save water.

Sure, but there is a difference between not saving and squandering.

No there isn't.

snip

Most places originally had black bins for waste before kerbside recycling was invented. For some reason here they had green, so had to choose other colours for recycling.

We had a conventional 'dustbin', then just bags and now a small black
wheelie bin for 'household waste' and a larger green bin for
(conveniently) 'green waste'.

When I were a lad, it was your own bin, which was lifted into the dustcart by the non-lazy dustmen, or scaffies in Scotland.

Same here.

Then health and softy declared the minimum wage otherwise useless to society dustmen couldn't lift anything or it might hurt their backs, so they produced wheelybins.

Yes, the cost of workman downtime and insurance payout's.

Don't pay them when they're off sick and don't insure them. **** the unions. Vote conservative.

If you injure yourself at work, you're clearly not cut out to do physical labour.

In the area I currently live, they were green. I think they were black where I used to live, and I've seen black ones in the council area west of me (really odd ones with a sort of skirt on the top, never worked out what that is for). Now they've added blue for paper/card/plastic, brown for garden waste, a blue box for glass and anything electrical like a laptop or toaster or batteries, and a little grey tub for food waste.

Feck (that's a lot of bins).

They claim 80% of waste is recycled. Might have been 70%.

That said, the std 'domestic bins' are for 'household waste' and
whilst the waste may have been from your household, it was actually
from but not your actual 'household'.

I consider household waste to be from me and not a business.

But ask 100 people (or the 'Environmental Services' at the local
council) what they consider to be 'household waste' and I'm betting
few would consider plasterboard to be on the list.

The Environmental Services perhaps, but most people chuck anything into their bins if they can.

No, 'many' might but luckily I believe 'most' follow the rules.

No such rules. As far as I know from a quick scan (which is all anyone will ever do) of the recycling leaflet, you put recyclable stuff in the various coloured bins, everything else in the waste bin, and "bulky items that won't fit in your bins" is taken to the recycling centre or you pay them £30 to uplift it.

And most people read less thoroughly than that, I see plastic in the blue boxes outside people's houses all the time. They don't even learn from their mistakes, because if you put something in the blue box they don't want, it gets left in it (they sort it in the back of the van).

Putting plasterboard in it from 100s of houses I'd worked on as a tradesman would be a different thing entirely.

Putting *your* plasterboard in it is a different matter entirely. ;-)

Mind you, if those houses were in the same council are, I still wouldn't have a problem with it.

I believe you would, both morally and officially.

If the council want it recycled, they should do so.

They will recycle everything they can to keep your council tax down.
There is no such thing as a free lunch.

If it's not cost effective to recycle, we shouldn't be doing it.

Not my problem.

Apparently not, but legally and morally it *is* your problem. You own
the waste, and it's your responsibility to dispose of it using the
proper procedures.

I have far more interesting things to do with my time than be that pedantic.

For example, when I've had tradesmen working here, they've put all the waste in my bins instead of taking it with them, as the council charges workmen for disposal of waste.

Quite! Now, if you have just had a new bathroom fitted and there is
some protective plastic film, some empty silicone tubes and paper
cloths then whilst it is *officially* commercial waste (the tradesman
should take it away and would need a waste carriers licence to cover
that (that they would fill in and you would countersign)), most people
would allow it to go in the 'household waste' bin. Now, I know you
would smash the old sanitaryware up and drip feed it into your
'household waste' but that wouldn't be 'legal'.

The tradesmen who do things legally cost more to hire.

Of course, because they aren't passing your costs onto the rest of us.

Why would I want to pay more myself so a stranger pays less?

Much of the 'household waste' is incinerated and I'm not sure bricks,
plasterboard or your old toilet burn that well. ;-(

Incinerators are still used?

Yup.

Dundee used to have one, but I thought they got rid of them all as they polluted too much. It's certainly landfill here (which stinks - they put it near all the council houses).

We are fairly close to what I understand is the biggest incinerator in
the UK and it seems to go to some effort to clean up it's exhaust:

http://www.londonwaste.co.uk/recycle/

Then why do greenies moan about the space taken up by landfills?

I think 'most people' would not consider 'building waste' (even from
their own building and diy efforts) the sort of thing they would put
in their household waste bins but take them to the tip themselves (or
get a skip / skip bag etc).

Only if it's too big to get in the bin easily.

By your rules. ;-)

Well the council have never refused to collect any of my bins.

Not really the point though eh. It was really windy one night and I
put one of the small recycling bins in the big green waste bin to stop
it blowing down the road. The collection came first thing the next
morning (when it was still windy) and whist the are supposed to
briefly check the green bin only contains green waste, they didn't.
;-(

Why would you expect them to check every time? They only do spot checks to make sure people are recycling well.

If it's windy, I simply place a few housebricks on the lid to stop it flapping open.

Except when I put the wrong colour out by mistake - then I emailed them asking why their dustmen were too lazy to walk up my drive to get the right one.

Again, nothing to do with them being 'too lazy but you not following
the rules. When they went from bags to wheelie bins round here they
also extended the rounds on the grounds it should (now) be quicker
emptying bins rather than picking up bags. It isn't.

One house once in 15 years isn't going to kill them. It took them more time to driv e out here specially.

They sent the truck back out the next day.

Yup, they will often send out a 'Street Cleansing' truck to mop up
anything missed or forgotten stuff. Try that too often though and they
may have a word with you (to start with).

Or just say no.

But I guess it's better than fly tipping it ... ;-(

Fly tipping happens BECAUSE councils charge people to dump waste.

Fly tipping happens BECAUSE some people (a tiny minority luckily) have
no moral compass and don't think they are responsible for their own
waste ... or think it's right and fair to saddle others with the cost
of disposing of your waste though unofficial means. ;-(

If it was free to dump it at the proper place, everybody would do so.

It is free to dump *everything* at our local recycling centre (so far)
and still we still see rubbish all over the place (and not counting
fly tips and the odd crisp packet), including outside the gates when
people get the opening hours wrong. [1]

It seems that *some people* think they are above the rules and that
nothing they do costs anyone anything extra ...

It's most likely not free if you're a tradesman. Here they charge £40 (!) for a vanfull or trailerfull of rubbish. The local tradesmen simply pretend it's domestic waste and use their wife's car/ neighbour's car etc.

Cheers, T i m

[1] As I did a while back when I turned up with a car full of junk on
one of their new 'Closed all day' days. So, I drove home and took it
back the next day. My rubbish, my responsibility and I consider myself
lucky that I can still dispose of this stuff for nothing. After all,
my local Council didn't ask me to buy it all, why should it pay to get
rid of it all (as it currently does for nothing).

Their fault for not being open. Mine is open till about sunset every day of the year except xmas and new year's day. So I've never had to leave anything outside the gates, although I did leave half a trailer of hedge all down the access road as their speedbumps knocked it out. I told the arsehole at the barrier he had extra work to do because some moron had littered the road with bumps, on a road where 50% of cars are towing something.

Part of the reason of course is some people aren't 'good citizens' and
the cost of clearing up fly tipped or abandoned rubbish isn't free
either.

Provide an easy way to throw away litter, and people will do it.

--
Times are tough.
Just the other day, I saw a beggar who was so broke that he was standing on the corner shouting at the cars that went by.
He was shouting, "WILL WORK FOR CARDBOARD AND A MAGIC MARKER!"