On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 17:34:46 -0500, Muggles wrote:

On 7/25/2015 5:17 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 23:34:47 -0500, Muggles wrote:

On 7/21/2015 8:21 PM, Robert Green wrote:
"Ashton Crusher" wrote in message

stuff snipped

It's not because I don't agree with your point of view. It's because
you, if you support discrimination because someone is gay, are a
bigot. If I agreed with you then BOTH of us would be bigots.

This gayness is a choice thing is pretty easy to demolish. When did any
straight person reading this thread make a conscious decision to become a
heterosexual? The surprisingly simple answer is that they didn't just as
most (all?) homosexuals didn't make a decision to become homosexual. One
day they realized that's who they were.

But if that's not enough proof it's NOT a moral choice, but an innate
process common to more than 10% of all species, there's this:

http://www.yalescientific.org/2012/0...homosexuality/

Recent research has found that homosexual behavior in animals may be much
more common than previously thought. Although Darwin's theory of natural
selection predicts an evolutionary disadvantage for animals that fail to
pass along their traits through reproduction with the opposite sex, the
validity of this part of his theory has been questioned with the discoveries
of homosexual behavior in more than 10% of prevailing species throughout the
world.

Rats turn "gay" when their colonies become over-crowded as if Nature was
trying to reduce the population by limiting pup-producing sexual relations.

How can it be a choice for a dumb animal without a moral system whatsoever?
It's most likely to be just the same for human beings. One thing's clear
from everything I've read, you can't *really* cure gay and trying to live as
a straight person is a loveless hell that a loving Creator would never force
upon us.


One argument in favor of being gay is people are born gay. I've always
countered that argument with a logical response. Do you think people are
born gay?

1) I'm inclined to think they are...
but
2) even if it is/was a choice, what possible concern is it of anyone
else that someone choose to be gay rather than straight?

Well, many people have used the argument that people are "born" gay in
order to force a mindset on others who disagree with the lifestyle.


I would quibble with your wording. Yes, people say that one is "born
gay" because that does push the discuss in a different direction. But
it's not an unreasonable starting point since the evidence is
overwhelming that a person IS born either gay or straight. However, I
don't think they do it specifically because others "disagree"with the
lifestyle, I think they do it because other ACDTIVELY try to prevent
gays from partaking of the SAME lifestyle that straights are allowed
to have, i.e. a married lifestyle and even before that point, many who
"disagree" want gays to be forced to hide in a closet. You know, the
people who think letting children know such a thing as a gay person
exists will somehow damage the child... those kind of people are not
content to just "disagree" but want to actively force gays underground
as well as prevent them from having a lifestyle comparable to
straights, i.e. the committed and possibly married lifestyle.


From the hysterics of the religious adherents you'd think someone was
proposing to tie them all down and shove a cock down their throats.

The objections I've seen have to do with gays changing the definition of
what constitutes a marriage. Most people I know don't give a rip one way
or another what other people do. OTOH, many people cared about the
definition of marriage.

All that's being asked of them is to leave other people alone and let
them live their lives as they choose to live them, which is hurting no
one. The only people trying to force others to make choices they
don't want to make are the religious adherents.

I don't think it's that simple.