On 12/05/2015 12:07, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 11 May 2015 19:28:03 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/05/2015 14:37, whisky-dave wrote:
So you are saying that bottled gas is not heavier than air? or it
does not pose a risk of pooling?

Neither. Why talk about bottled gas, natural gas or the gas I'm
talking about isn't heavier than air and will not pool in the same
way as botteld gas.

In my previous response about GS and formerly CORGI having different
categories of competency for different tasks, Huge mentioned that he had
a GS fitter who declined to work on LPG for this very reason. Hence why
it was mentioned.

So it';s probbaly a good idea to check the
compedence of someone that has only ever worked on connecting a
bottle of cas to their caravan if your employing them to fix 'natural
or North sea gas'

Indeed - LPG is a separate category as far as GS are concerned.

And you are allowed to connect a gas cocker that has the baynet mount
yuorself. No training or certification is requred.

The bayonet end, yes. The threaded end that connects to the cooker is
typically a taper fitting that needs making with a PTFE seal on the
threads. Hence why that is not "user" doable in most cases.

[snip - stuff on good practice for pipe capping exercise]

If you can answer yes to all those, and you have the required
practical skills to actually do the above then your would not
necessarily be a competent gas fitter, however you would in all
likelihood be competent to carry out that one specific job.

and what proof do you have of this ? Where does it say this in the
legislation ?

I have no proof - as has been repeatedly said it does not define
competence in the primary legislation. The HSE guidance gives a very
good definition of how it would normally be assessed in a commercial
environment. However it also highlights that there are other ways of
complying with the legislation, but should it ever come to a
prosecution, it would be on the onus of the fitter to prove competence
if one of the default routes had not been taken. As has been said
before, if you leave it leaking, with an out of spec dynamic flow rate,
inadequately ventilated / flued, improperly supported or any number of
other deficiencies, then you can be fairly certain you were not competent.

The comments I made above meet *my* minimum standards or what I would
expect to see a professional fitter do for the job specified (i.e.
capping a pipe). Those are traceable to statements in the primary
legislation, details in the British standards such as BS6891
(Installation of Low pressure gas pipework of upto 35mm in domestic
premises (2nd family gas) - specification), and training guides such as
Tolly's (domestic gas installation practice (vol 2)).

To make it easier for you to check I am right I have copied and
pasted the section here from the ACOP:

Have you read what it says about the ACOP?

"Approved Code of Practice
This Code has been approved by the Health and Safety Executive, with the
consent of the Secretary of State. It gives practical advice on how to
comply with the law. If you follow the advice you will be doing enough
to comply with the law in respect of those specific matters on which the
Code gives advice. You may use alternative methods to those set out in
the Code in order to comply with the law.

However, the Code has a special legal status. If you are prosecuted for
breach of health and safety law, and it is proved that you did not
follow the relevant provisions of the Code, you will need to show that
you have complied with the law in some other way or a Court will find
you at fault.

Guidance
This guidance is issued by the Health and Safety Executive. Following
the guidance is not compulsory, unless specifically stated, and you are
free to take other action. But if you do follow the guidance you will
normally be doing enough to comply with the law. Health and safety
inspectors seek to secure compliance with the law and may refer to this
guidance.
Safety"

now the above PROVES that you or anyone else on here IS NOT
compendent because they have NOT kept up to date with the law. The
above is the 2013 updated version of the 1998 version.

If believe if you check the government web site, you will find that the
1998 version is still current. The ACOP is provided by HSE as additional
guidance - not to override or replace the primary legislation.

Anyway, I feel further discussion on this is rather pointless since
everything of any relevance has been said several times over.

I expect the number of individuals who carry out DIY gas work is
vanishingly small anyway, and reports from previous consultation
meetings in the days of CORGI suggest that there is insufficient data on
DIY work to form meaningful opinions (as reported here by Geoff some
time ago).

For the avoidance of doubt I am not suggesting that gas work is
something that most DIYers should "have a go" at. However I am
personally content that in the hands of a suitably diligent, skilled,
and well read individual it poses no risk. You probably feel different,
and I respect that. As the primary safety rule of thumb suggests - if
you don't feel totally confident you can do something safely - find
another way.


--
Cheers,

John.

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