On 3/22/2015 7:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 5:55 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/22/2015 4:54 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 4:47 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/22/2015 4:38 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 4:30 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/22/2015 4:13 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 3:53 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 3:36 PM, Bill wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 3/22/15 1:55 PM, Leon wrote:

Why does a common laborer feel entitled to be
paid a salary way beyond what he actually
brings to the work force? Why do certain
laborers, factory workers for instance, feel
that they should earn what some doctors earn,
of for that matter more than our educators?
Entitlement. Is it even a small wonder why
China and Mexico workers have replaced American
workers? Now that the US and other countries
became majorly involved in world trade we now
see how our labor force was way over paid for
their production. Yes China and Mexico
built-products are on occasion not of the same
quality than what we can build here but that
will change. Even though their products are
often inferior they absolutely offer a better
value, you get what you pay for. 50 years ago
we imported way less quality products from
Japan than we do from China and Mexico. Now if
it is made in Japan I choose that product
rather than, over priced and lesser quality
American made. Just look at the American
automobile industry. Plain and simple the
American automobile industry is in the shape it
is in because of workers with entitlement
issues and the unions that supposedly
represented them.


That has been my contention for the longest time.
The unions, which were needed at one time and did
an incredible service to the labor force, have
now brainwashed people with high school
educations and little to no skilled training that
they are worth $50k +

Do you think standing on an assembly line with
big, sharp, heavy metal things swinging by you all
day sounds like a "fun" job to do Everyday?


WTF does fun have to do with anything!?

My wife went to school for years to earn 3 degrees,
went through internships, training and continuing
education, had to pass licensing exams, and had 10
years experience before she started making that kind
of money. I've never heard her once describe her job
as "fun."

Relatively speaking, I'll bet her job is "fun". Ask
her about her working conditions or her risk of being
injured on the job, for instance. I don't work on the
assembly line, I just know some folks who have. I
agree with you that they are over-payed, but not as
over-payed as you think they are.


I though we had OSHA for that. I'm pretty sure there
are dozens and dozens of safety procedures and devices in
place on every assembly line in this country. If there
some that aren't safe, they should be made safer. But
what does that have to do with employee pay? Are you
saying you'd rather have higher pay than a safe working
environment?

How about all the roofers around here who don't have
safety gear like harnesses? Because I can guarantee
their jobs are way more dangerous than any auto assembly
line job. Are these roofers entitled to $50k/yr plus
benefits and retirement just because they have a
dangerous job?

I don't have a problem with the $50,000 + benefits. The
job will take its toll on your body. I have more of a
problem with what professional athletes get.
Income-inequity is a problem.

Well stop buying the advertized products and their salaries
will come into line...

I was just reading about a new organization concerned with
the inquitable distribution of wealth (more so than
income), and how it can't last. I certainly don't have all
of the answers.

There is certainly something wrong with a society that pays
it's entertainers more than its health care workers and
educators.


If a movie makes a billion dollars because I'm in it, then
it's not unfair pay. It's the free market.


You think? Does your contribution to society for being in the
movie make you worth a salary of $50,000,000? This is our
society but on this path no one will be able to afford to go to
the movies. I understand how we think this way and I understand
why we are in the shape we are in. We put too much value in
things that make us happy today but not for all of the
tomorrows.


So now we have to "contribution to society" in order to be paid
well?

Noooooooo! The more our products or services contribute to society
the more deserving we are of the high pay. If you work to do
something that greatly benefits society as you would work playing a
game. Which would you pick as the job that deserves the better pay.
I don't really determine a persons worth by how much money he makes.
I just believe that if you are providing a product or service that
benefits one or many people, what you charge is of more value than a
person that simply entertains. Value for money spent is more
important. Is entertainment important, absolutely but IMHO not a
necessity.



If that's the yardstick then very few people on earth should be
paid well.

If I build a mousetrap that 500 million want to buy, do I not
deserve that money?



Here is how I am looking at it.

You work 3 years to build mouse traps that nets you a profit of 25
million. Your product helps countless people with an actual need to
rid their home of vermin.

You act in a movie that takes 3 years to film. You net a profit of
10 million. The movie you act is a box office hit for 6 weeks.

You put in the exact amount of time and work for both the mouse traps
and the entertainment. BUT you earn 10 million more making the
traps.

Which of the two jobs would you say benefited society the most
therefore being the most deserved?

Now I am not saying that you don't deserve what you get with either
pick, using our society's way of thinking and beliefs. A year from
now while the traps are still in use and the movie is all but
forgotten which would job would make you feel the best about what you
have done?

"IMHO" if you sell your customers a product that benefits them for
more than a few hours, dollar for dollar, you are more deserving of
what you earn.

And again I don't condemn any one for making as much money as they
can by doing what they want to do. This is how we have been
conditioned to think in our society. You get all you can get while
the getting is good, you are entitled. And "IMHO" that is the
problem.


Substitute anything that doesn't have any moral value to you for
mousetrap in my example. Candy bar. Software app. Breast implant.
Bald Eagle trap. :-)

Well substitute any of those and I feel that with varying degrees all
provide more of a service to society than than very highly paid game
players and entertainers.


You're putting your own moral value on services or things and saying
some deserve more than others. You can't have that in a free market.
You only get that in a utopia or socialism. And with socialism, you
better hope whoever is setting that moral compass lines up with your
ethics or you might be really screwed. :-)


I totally understand and agree. And I don't condemn those that pursue
those goals. We probably have the best system in that it lets us go in
the direction that we want to go. BUT it is not the perfect system.
Think about this, in all actuality entertainers/game players are getting
paid more each year and the educators teaching our children are being
paid less.
Do we really want to give more recognition and pay to those that
entertain and don't educate our children? I think it is pretty obvious
that kids education and aptitude today are farther behind than kids 40
years ago. Not all of them but the percentages are growing. We seem to
have a snow ball effect going on.

And anything socialism is out the door. Actually anything that any
government does to guide our thoughts is out the door. I just think
that we as "consumers" should rethink what we are spending our money on.
It does not bother me that anyone makes what they want for a living so
much as the value the consumer puts on some professions compared to
others. You know if the government actually cared about education it
would make things better but the dumber and more dependent the
population is the easier it is to get the population to go along with
bigger government.