On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:24:00 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Ed Huntress fired this volley in
:

To reduce friction against the cages and against each other, in
cageless sets.

Really? I didn't know that! not

And why would one lubricate the rollers in a garage door track? Because
they do not roll precisely-true, and rub on the sides. And they're
noisy, metal on sheet metal, and all that; lubrication also quiets them.

Just to be clear, Ed; I knew all about that... its being sort of
"mechanics 101". The joke about BLO and graphite was a joke, so "off-
the-wall" that ANYBODY would have 'gotten it'. And so many didn't...
sigh

Lloyd

We seem to have a failure to communicate. g Let's see why that is:

Lloyd asks:

"And to the guy who asked why anyone would lubricate a ROLLING
member...I don't know... why do they lubricate roller bearings?
(duh!)"

To which Ed replies:

"To reduce friction against the cages and against each other, in
cageless sets."

And Lloyd rejoins:

"Really? I didn't know that! not"

Lloyd, you asked a reasonable question, got an accurate and reasonable
answer, and now you seem to be perplexed about it. Carrying on:

Lloyd says:

"And why would one lubricate the rollers in a garage door track?
Because they do not roll precisely-true, and rub on the sides. And
they're noisy, metal on sheet metal, and all that; lubrication also
quiets them."

Which is generally true, but which HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QUESTION
YOU ASKED!

You asked why roller bearings are lubricated. And you expect an answer
to why one would lubricate a roller wheel on a sheet-metal track.
Different questions, and they get different answers. My solution, BTW,
is to shoot some oil into the bearings and don't wipe it up when some
oil drools out. It works great. No fuss, no muss. g

Now, about your linseed-and-graphite soup: You'd just given us a story
about "real" boiled linseed oil, which was sort of half cracker-barrel
technology and half old-wives's tale (more about this later), and now
you sound like you're serious about recommending this glop. Maybe you
were serious. What you said is partly true: linseed is used to protect
against rust (more about this later, too) and graphite is sometimes
mixed with binders for lubricating purposes. You seem to think that
some linseed doesn't get really hard, so maybe you thought that was
all a good idea. I didn't want to get into a big discussion about it
(an idea that now has become a complete loss g), so I let it slip
away after your sardonic remarks.

===================================

A few facts about linseed oil, boiled and otherwise: It boils at
around 300 deg. F. It smokes -- like crazy -- at around 225 deg. F.
When they boiled it in ancient times, it was done with a
metal-compound catalyst, which they called "metal salts," which was,
in earlier times, litharge. That's lead oxide. It wasn't until they
STOPPED boiling it, centuries later, that they found they could use
other metal salts to promote hardening without actually boiling the
oil. Today, it's often a cobalt compound. Sometimes it's a mixture of
a zinc compound and something else.

So I have no idea what you mean by "real" boiled linseed. They haven't
done that for well over a century. Where the idea came from MAY be
from the way they make "stand oil." For that, you heat linseed in a
sealed container to around 600 deg. F, for hours. The result is called
stand oil. It's used a lot in artist's oil paints, and small amounts
of it are sometimes mixed into the commercial product that we call
"boiled" linseed oil today. It's as thick as honey and it's partly
polymerized. It promotes polymerization of raw linseed. Don't do this
at home; a leak could cause an explosion.

So far, you've got some homebrew product that you're happy with, and
that's fine. But you got the tacky part all twisted up. Raw linseed
takes a very long time to harden. I sealed a pair of custom-made ash
oars, which I still have, with raw linseed the year we moved into our
house: 1978. By 1981 or so, they were nice and hard and dry. g They
took extra time because I didn't know at that time that you're
supposed to mix the first coat 50/50 with real turpentine. Now I know.
That's how I've done my gunstocks, only with boiled linseed rather
than raw linseed. The first coat takes weeks to dry. Subsequent coats,
hand-rubbed with the heel of my hand, take around a week or less. My
Model 1885 Browning falling-block, before I sold it, had over 20
hand-rubbed coats on it. It was absolutely beautiful. My antique
woodworking planes were treated the same way.

That was "commercial" boiled linseed. That's what "boiled" linseed is
today. It's refined raw linseed that contains metal compounds
(collectively known as "Japan driers") that catalyze the oil and
promote polymerization, which basically occurs from an oxidation
reaction. As I said, it may also contain some stand oil, some
turpentine (the artists' product, which is thicker than the turps we
used in house paint years ago), and sometimes other solvents.

Now, here's why I didn't get into this with you: You were partly
right. It can protect against rust, but it doesn't do very well in
open air. It's hydrophobic, but it's also porous. It's kind of a mixed
bag in terms of rust protection. For around 90 years, it's been used
to coat the inside of steel tubes used in aircraft tube frames as a
rust protectant. But here's the kicker: Its protection is based
partly, or maybe mostly, on "eating up" available oxygen in those
(hopefully) sealed tubes, as it oxidizes and polymerizes. In other
words, it starves the rust. And, if the tube is well sealed, it never
gets really hard.

So, not being a mind reader, and not knowing where you got your ideas
about "boiled" linseed oil, I let it slide. You do tend to be jumpy
from time to time, as we both know. d8-) I don't doubt your experience
with the oil but man, following you around the block can be a workout.

--
Ed Huntress