On 18/07/14 07:31, F Murtz wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/07/14 05:16, F Murtz wrote:
polygonum wrote:
On 16/07/2014 14:50, F Murtz wrote:
It is extremely common in Australia and I can not believe that it is
not
in UK by professionals.

If plumbers did actually use silver solder (of whatever percentage
silver content), you'd expect them to be able to buy the stuff in
plumbers' merchants, would you not?

Funny how BES and Screwfix don't appear to sell it. (Of course, maybe I
am simply crap at finding it.)



May be plumbers buy their stuff at plumbing wholesalers and not at
general hardware shops, or if screwfix etc are trade suppliers you are
not looking hard enough
I can not imagine that the UK is so different to here
Anywhere copper is used on new flats, units or multistory living spaces
5% or 2% silver is specified,Small single dwellings now seem to be going
plastic but if copper is used it is silver soldered
Why don't you do what I suggested and ask a real plumber?
Did you ask them what they used to join copper in new places(not just
alterations in old places)

Darling I had half a dozen here building my house and bought my lead
free solder from the same builders merchants as they did.

No one called it 'silver solder' and it isn't 'silver solder', even
though it generally has 2% silver in it to help it flow.
This is soft solder sometimes containing silver
This is not the silver solder I am referring to

What you can or cannot imagine appears to be orthogonal to the actual
facts of the matter.



I think it is a language problem
There is silver containing soft solder but I am not referring to that,I
am referring to what most countries (except seemingly UK)call silver
solder or silver brazing solder.(mostly copper bit of silver and phosphor)


No. That is exactly NOT what you are referring to. Because that is NOT
what plumbers use.


You cant weasel your way out of the fact that you claimed that plumbers
use 'silver solder'

I.e whta we call hard solder. They dom not. They use soft solder.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/41035-Harris...em259193 f27d

Here is a range.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/41035-Harris...em259193 f27d


This whole subject is absolutely amazing me,I can not believe that the
UK differs so much from everywhere else and is using ancient methods
that have changed so long ago elsewhere.

No, you cannot believe that you don't know what you are talking about.

ALL plumbers everywhere in the world use soft solder. None use silver or
'hard' solder except in very high pressure work like radiators for cars
or aerospace hydraulics. Or where there is a lot of mechanical stress. I
don't call that 'plumbing'.

The fact that one Australian company has place soft solder containing
some silver under the heading of 'silver solder' and you thought you
were being clever, but are in fact being stupid by showing their sales
brochure, is another matter entirely


I am completely baffled as I am having trouble finding the copper
phosphor silver alloys in the british plumbing establishments on the
net, here you can get it at all hardwares,trade plumbing supplies and
all over the place.

No one uses copper phosphor alloys. For soldering. Because its not a solder.

That is a brazing rod composition. I.e hard solder.


Soft solder is sub 400C melting point.

Hard solder is 400C melting point and is generally called 'brazing' or
sometimes - because early hard solders and brazing rods ERE mainly
silver - silver soldering.

Soft solders are what is used in electronics and 99% of plumbing. Tin
lead solder is the best, but recent alarms over lead have lead to
tin-copper with a little silver being substituted.

Hard solders vary enormously. from high sliver and gold for jewelry
work, to copper silver and phosphorus for high temp brass and bronze joints.

They were developed in the UK, in Europe and in the USA ling before
Australians even heard of brazing. Its seems they haven't heard yet
actually. And think its the same as soldering.

Hence the confusion.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll