On Sat, 05 Jul 2014 00:15:13 -0400, rickman wrote:

On 7/4/2014 2:37 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 12:55:56 -0400, rickman wrote:

On 7/4/2014 10:31 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 04:06:11 -0400, rickman wrote:

On 7/4/2014 12:57 AM, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jul 2014 22:28:23 -0400, krw wrote:

On Thu, 3 Jul 2014 17:00:16 -0700, "Pico Rico"
wrote:


"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.xif3so2o2cx0wh@ajm...
On Thu, 03 Jul 2014 16:29:47 -0700, Pico Rico
wrote:


"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.xif3f3zo2cx0wh@ajm...
...snip...
So my question is WHICH way is this !@#$#@ system designed for? UP
or DOWN air in the summer?

it depends if you have air conditioning.

again which way? for what reason? elaborate?

heat rises. If you have ac, you want to push the warm air down so it
can become ac'd. If you don't have ac, you might as well leave the warm
air up there were it will be less noticed.

But you can cool to a higher temperature if you help the convection off
your skin. Add in evaporative cooling and a breeze is a big win, at
least in small rooms, like a home.

We have air conditioning which keeps the house at 78, and a way
undersized room dehumidifier which we set up in the master shower, turn
on the circulating fan in the furnace, and basically slowly and
inefficiently dry out the whole house.

It makes a huge huge difference how hot it feels -- and we're in Oregon,
where everyone is a humidity wimp.

Do you realize the dehumidifier is just an AC unit where the heat is
exhausted back into the room? You could do the same thing by running a
small space heater which would make the AC run more often which does a
much better job of taking the humidity out of the air. Actually, I've
never seen a house with AC that still had high humidity, but then I'm
not in the Pacific northwest.
If the AC is oversized it is not efficient at removing humidity
because it doesn't run long enough. ANd if it isn't warm enough to
require running the AC, you still have the humidity.

Running the heater and the A/C at the same time MIGHT help, by forcing
the AC to run more, but it most certainly is NOT efficient. At the
price of electricity in Ontario, particularly during peak periods, it
doesn't make any sense at all. We run the AC off-peak to drop the
temperature and keep the house closed up on-peak to keep the heat out.
As soon as it cools down outside the wife wants to open the windows -
even when the humidity is 81%+ outside and only 40% inside.

Slowly getting her trained, after 33 years.

But that is exactly what you *are* doing, running that dehumidifier is
the same as running the big AC unit. I guess it might be more expensive
to run the heat outside rather than keep it in.... but no, the heat is
always run outside by the big unit because of the thermostat.

Clearly the small unit is less efficient, small things usually are. So
why not run the big unit that does a great job of removing the moisture?
It is larger so will need to run much less to lower the humidity. It
is also equipped to remove the water while most room dehumidifiers have
a bucket you need to empty unless you have it tied into a drain.
You are not getting my point. The AC, if oversized, moves a lot of
air over the cold colil for a short amount of time while drawing large
amount of current and removing a small amount of humidity.

I do "get" your point, I just don't agree with it.


A smaller A/C moves less air over the cold coil for a longer period of
time, and moves more air to reduce the temperature by the same amount,
using less power to do so.

I don't think that follows. Most of the power in an AC unit is in the
compressor which creates the cooling. Reducing the temperature of the
air is going to take the same total amount of cooling, so there is no
power saving in a smaller unit. They size units to keep the initial
costs down and to provide enough cooling for the warmest days.


so it removes more moisture for the same
amount of current drawn. The BTU/watt efficiency may very well be the
same - or the big one may even be more efficient - but the efficiency
as a dehumidifier is significantly better on the smaller A/C unit.

Your conclusions simply don't follow your premise.


That's not being nice.


Unless there is
something less effective about the condensation of water in the large
unit it will end up collecting the same amount of moisture from the air.
But in reality there is an effect that makes the larger unit work
better. If the airflow over the coils does not cool the air below the
dew point, no water condenses at all. A sufficiently small unit with an
adequate air flow may well not lower the air temperature enough to
extract enough water during the process.


If it is not cool enough to require air conditioning, but is too humid
for comfort, running a small de-humidifier is a LOT more efficient
than running the big-assed air conditioner AND the furnace!!!!

Again, no substantiation, just a claim.


You are turning into Sloman, if you aren't Sloman already. Constant
droning insults.





Running the small dehumidifier
removes small amounts of water AND warms the room requiring the AC to
run. Running the large AC unit will remove the water more quickly. If
it does not remove enough water heat must be added as it runs to remove
enough humidity (becoming a dehumidfier). The question is which unit is
more efficient as a dehumidifier and talking about "big-assed" ACs does
not answer the question. You are coming up with an answer based on an
emotional analysis of inadequate data.

The one fact I know is that my AC unit produces enough water to require
a pump to remove it and runs repeatedly all day. A dehumidifier I have
used will fill the two gallon bucket in a day or so in the worst humid
days of summer in the DC area. Still not sufficient data to prove one
or the other since I have never measured the output. But the AC only
cycles on and off while the dehumidifier runs continuously 24/7 until
the bucket is full.


Only a total idiot would run the AC and heat at the same time to
reduce the humidity in the house.

You still fail to understand...


See what I mean?